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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2003 * April 15, 2003 * Where does the nutty flavor come from (Ex Redhook ESB) < Previous Next >

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Sail (136.181.195.17)
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 08:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just an off the wall question. I have tried beers like Redhook ESB or Blue Moon Belgian that have a type of nutty, roasty kind of flavor. Any ideas what ingredient (hops, grains etc) causes these types of flavors?

These are both mass produced so I am sure there is no special treatment like grain roasting.

Comments?
 

Midwest Brewer (194.205.123.10)
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 08:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You sure you're not tasting butterscotch in the Redhook ESB? Their beers are known for that. Redhook ESB is Pale Malt and 60L, no other roasted malts.

MWB
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 08:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roasty flavor in Blue Moon????
 

Hophead (167.4.1.38)
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also don't taste that in Redhook ESB. Victory and Amber malts tend to lend a nutty/toasty flavor. I use victory and honey malts to make a good nut brown ale.
 

Paul McHugh (67.34.220.225)
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sound like you are tasting the crystal. The flavor of crystal can come across as nutty or almost toffee like.
 

Sail (136.181.195.17)
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Butterscotch might be a closer flavor... unfortunately I am not drinking it now so I am trying to reminisce.
 

Bill Pierce (208.57.122.28)
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's the diacetyl you like, Sail. I have never noted it in Blue Moon but Red Hook ESB is known for it. Some people are more sensitive to it than others (my taste threshold for it is quite low), but it's generally thought of as contributing a buttery smoothness to beer at low levels, while in excess it makes you think you must be next to the movie theater concession stand.

As for the cause, diacetyl is a byproduct of some yeast strains and certain bacteria such as pediococcus can produce large amounts.
 

KeepBrewing (24.186.156.4)
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would think nutty is coming from a healthy portion of crystal malt. As you go above crystal 60-80 120. These impart a nuttiness. The lower 10L-20L-40L crystals are sweet no nuttiness. If I want crystal sweet but not so much nutty. I blend the crystal malts. Although, red hook esb is more like a American/German alt beer to my taste buds. Blue Moon is “Coors” wit ale. Very floral . I can’t imagine nutty in that beer.
 

Patrick Walton (66.146.40.153)
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 02:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Being that we are discussing Redhhok ESB-- does anybody have a recipe for it. Like the way it tastes (with or without nuts:) ).
 

Matt Harrington (68.0.22.23)
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 04:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a recipe for Redhook ESB that I brewed up today for the first time to see how it goes. This recipe is from the Clone Brews book by: Tess and Mark Szamatulski(1998)pg 154. I'm not sure about copyright stuff. Here it is:

Add 1/2 gal water to brew pot
13oz 60L Crystal Malt (Steep for 20 min @150deg)

Sparge grains with 1/2 gal water @150deg

Bring total Brew pot Volume to 1.5 Gal and boil

4 lbs Alexander's Pale Malt syrup
3.25 lbs M&F Light DME
2oz Tettnanger @ 4.75% AA (9.5 HBU)

Fill Brew pot to make 2.5 gal

1/2oz Willamette last 15 min.
1tsp Irish Moss last 15 min
1oz Tettnanger last 5 min.

Yeast: 1st Choice - Wyeast 1056 American Ale
2nd Choice - Wyeast 1272 American Ale II

Bottle with 1.25 cups M&F Extra Light DME

There it is, I added 2oz of Malto Dextrin to the recipe when I made it. The book also has a Mini-Mash and All-grain recipe if anyone wants those. Redhook ESB is my favorite beer so I'll be glad to give out the recipe as long as people come back and tell how it went. Happy Brewin!!
 

Kurt Schweter (12.3.208.130)
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

maggie, the liquid seasoning - -
"o" wait, that's cooking, sorry !!!
 

Sail (136.181.195.17)
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have been surfing the web and it sounds like Crystal (Caramel) malt 60L might be source of this flavor.
 

big earl (209.222.26.27)
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

it's not crystal(60l crystal is not nutty or buttery)

it's the yeast, some say Irish ale yeast (wy1084/wlp004) gives this flavor
 

michael murphy (151.24.190.0)
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Marris otter pale malt, with crystal give some of my beers a nutty flavor. Also use a english ale yeast with a sweet character like london ale III
 

KeepBrewing (24.186.156.4)
Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 02:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Try This. Crystal 80L 40L mix at 6-7% grist. Make the 80 dominant.
Ad munich 1% of grist.
Munich is roasted at 280F for 30 minutes milled and added directly to mash from oven.
Munich also adds a nuttiness to beer as well as aroma.
Add 1% chocolate malt to check sweet malt.
These malts should be added at the end of the mash for 30 minutes at a dextrin temperature 156-158F. This should guarantee the sweet malt ends up in the finished beer.
The rest of the recipe you have to figure out.
This sweet malt line up should be good even if you don’t get it like REDHook.
Try it with an esb yeast or chico
 

Dave Witt (205.188.209.80)
Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, KeepBrewing,

I think Sail is referring to Blue Moon Abbey Ale, which is dark and might not be available everywhere. I tried a bottle in a mixed six pack once but I don't recall the flavor.
 

Patrick Walton (66.146.40.30)
Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 05:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks all for the recipe. I'll contemplate them over the next few weeks with some beer.

Pat
 

Sail (136.181.195.17)
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was (as most suspected) refering to Blue Moon Beligian the micro wanna be from Coors.

Most of you seem to think it doesn't have a flavor as I described. Honestly it has been a while since I had it, so may be that one is a bad example.

**Please disregard this beers for comparison.**

I brewed a batch using 80L crystal this past weekend so I will let you all know if that familiar taste comes thorough.

Thanks!

Sail
 

Denny Conn (140.211.82.4)
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 08:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dave, I've only had the blue Moon once, and it was a wit. Didn't realize there were other versions available.

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