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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2003 * December 19, 2003 * Honey and how to use it? < Previous Next >

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Best/Economic oxygen systemDavid Beckerdite11-17-03  11:14 pm
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David Beckerdite (12.218.114.253)
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have been asked to brew a Honey Cream Ale for some friends of mine but I have never brewed with honey before. Does anyone have a good HCA recipe they're willing to post? And any pointers on how, when and what time to use the honey would be very helpful.

TIA,
David B.
 

JOHN K. LEE (206.66.239.111)
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey David, I don't have a HCA recipe for you, but I can give you a tip on how to use the honey. I've brewed only 4 beers containing honey. The first, a porter, I dumped in 2lbs at the beginning of the boil and when It came time to drink there wasn't much of a honey flavor at all. Next I tried the same recipe but didn't add the honey until 5 min before flameout. This was a great beer with much more of a pronounced honey flavor. The best way I've found bar far I found on the honey.com website. Sterilize the honey in the oven at 176 degrees for 2.5 hrs then cool. Add enough water to honey to make it the same O.G. as beer and add at peak fermentation. I've done it twice on a honey pale ale. Fantastic!!
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There's no need for a separate sanitation step for honey (incidentally, it's *sanitation*, not sterilization; the brewery is not an operating room). Merely add the honey at the end of the boil. The hot wort will kill any wild yeast (unlikely anyway) that could be in the honey.
 

Denny Conn (140.211.82.4)
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've usually used honey directly into the secondary with no heating at all.
 

big earl (209.222.26.27)
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the "standard" meathod is to add the honey at the end of boil (5-15mins)

when honey is fermented in a beverage it no-longer tastes like raw honey (nor should it), in a beer it mostly lightens up the body and boosts the alc.

as far as Honey Cream Ale; I don't know if Zymurgy had a Rogue HCA recipe in thier recent "Rogue" issue, I'll check for you....

basicly: I'd say
shoot for about 1.050 w/ about 15%honey and some crystal 20l-60l, for flavor and golden color, I'd use american varities of noble hops
 

David Beckerdite (12.218.114.253)
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 11:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for all the great info Guy's!
I went to honey.com and down loaded everything they had on honey which was considerable to say the least. I'll formulate my Honey Cream Ale this evening and post my recipe for opinions.
Thanks again for all your help.

David B.
 

chumley (199.92.192.126)
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheat and use Gambrinus' honey malt.
 

David Beckerdite (12.218.114.253)
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because the friends that I am brewing this for are very new to HB I have decided to cold steep my dark grains for 24 hours before brewing to eleminate the bitters from the grain. I realize that this is not to style and that some of the flavor characters of the different grains will not come through but I have these amounts left over from a previous batch so I figured what the heck! Suggestions for Hop schedule would be appreciated. I am leaning toward hallataur and tettnanger.

Mash Bill:
1 1/2 lbs 2-Row Malt
1 lb Lt. Crystal 20L
8 ozs. Medium Crystal 60L
8 ozs. Flaked Barley

Cold Steep Bill:
12 ozs. Caramunich Malt
6 ozs. Belgian Special 'B'
6 ozs. Black Patent
8 ozs. Chocolate Malt

Adjuncts:
3.3 lbs. Lt. Dry Malt Extract
3.3 lbs. Dk. Liquid Malt Extract
2 lbs. Honey
1/2 tsp. Irish Moss

Yeast:
1728 Scottish Ale
 

Michael Ottgen (67.250.140.5)
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dave,

Although I love controversy, I would like to avoid flaming. With that in mind, I would add the following:

If you are implementing each a partial mash, a cold steep, and malt extract, then you would benefit more from just a regular all-grain set-up. Aside from the machination-assertions of some of the money-pit junkies that post on this board, you don't have to throw away metric tonnage of hundred-dollar bills into this "hobby".

An easy way to avoid "issues" is to use a grain bag in a brew pot with a spigot; not perfect, but workable. There are other options that might work better with your own personal set-up (ie., the "dreaded", drilled-bucket), but that's up to you.

Other items: (1) A "Cream" ale does not usually incorporate dark grains/extract; (2) This bill more reflects a "honey" porter or imperial porter from such a grain/extract bill (5G batch); (3) You will get more honey flavor from later/larger additions, and will have to adjust your honey bill to match this per your own tastes/expectations; (4) Aside from some comments, you "can" taste some honey flavor if you add honey later in the fermentation process; (5) Scottish yeast for what looks to be a fairly big beer might result in a cloyingly sweet beer (ie, nastily sweet and with no longevity); (6) As per chumley, honey malt isn't a bad substitute for a honey-oriented bill; (7) As per BP, "sanitation" is not required, but recommended; for this, if your own sanitation/sterilization steps are adhered to, you should not need to do anything if you add the honey in the secondary (DC?), as the alcohol %'age provides "sterilization".

Anyone that is currently loading their artillery, feel free to fire now.
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Michael, no flames from here...
 

David Beckerdite (12.218.114.253)
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Michael!
Since the Yeast I have sellected seems to be a less than perfect choice what would you suggest? 1056 American?, 1028 London?, 1968 Special London? Or should I Lager? Your comments are appreciated!

David B.

P.S. I have already changed the recipe from a Cream to a Honey Porter. I will probably cut out the 2 Row & Crystal and just Cold Steep the remaining grains. This should bring the OG down a bit.
 

big earl (209.222.26.27)
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd go with the 1056 or another American ale strain...if you want it "clean"

but the London would also be good...if you like it "fruitier"
 

big earl (209.222.26.27)
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

reminder: flaked barley must be mashed

and I still think you have to much Dark malts (black & chocolate, even for a porter)
 

chumley (199.92.192.126)
Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 01:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ordinarily I would agree with you, big earl, but my one attempt at cold steeping gave me the impression that you get about half the flavor from the dark grains as you would putting them in the mash. I think it will turn out all right.
 

David Beckerdite (12.218.114.253)
Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 05:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chumley, that is what I had come to understand about cold steeping. The amount of grain needs to be increased to bring accross the flavor yet leaving the bitter of the darker grains behind.

Big Earl, I'll go with the 1056 since I have it on hand. It was either the 1056 American or the 1728 Scottish. I haven't been to the LHBS for a while. I will also be removing the flaked barley from the recipe. Just cold steeping no mini-mash.

David B.
 

Kevin Davidson (209.112.140.240)
Posted on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 11:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When adding honey to the secondry, or to the primary with additional yeast, do you disolve in water first of just straight out of the bottle?

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