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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * March 22, 2004 * Heat exchanger trials < Previous Next >

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Belly Buster Bob (142.177.99.143)
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 11:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My thermocouple wire finally arrived. I plan on running some tests with water this weekend. I'd like some opinions on how to go about that, should I run water through my system as if grain were there? I want to time how long it takes to bring the output from my heat exchanger up to temp. I won't be able to find out how long to bring the mash up until i add grain. Maybe I'll have time to brew on Sunday. (working Mids) Boy if I had my trailer brewery built, I'd take it to work
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.129.137)
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Water has better thermal transfer properties than mash, which will take more time to change temperature, but I still recommend making a trial run of your system with water. You will gain some idea of system performance and how it will function during a real brewing session.
 

Jared Cook (67.166.251.138)
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 11:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Take some pics BBB.
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.106.186)
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Bill, I though straight water would be a good idea.
Pics will be taken and posted on my web pge.
www.bellybuster.noadweb.com
let's just hope I can find the time to put everything back together.
 

Kent Fletcher (206.170.107.30)
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob,

I'd suggest using a volume of water equivalent to an actual mash. In other words, to represent a 5 gallon batch with 12 pound of grain and 16 quarts of water, add another 5 or 6 quarts to represent the the grains. I have no idea of what the specific heat of barley malt is, but an additional 45-50% water should more than adequately make up for the absence of the grain.
 

Marlon Lang (68.18.106.249)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 01:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB,
As BP/WF sez, water has better heat transfer properties, so if you tune your controls on water, it will be stable with mash. Did you end up with "K" thermocouple wire? If you do the pics, please do a shot of the T/C you made.
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.99.105)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 02:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi guys thanks...the additional water will help..Marlon, I got "j" wire. Best deal. Do I need to solder the ends??
 

Marlon Lang (68.18.106.249)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 02:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB
No. Twist will work. But one of the "J" sides is iron so expect rust.
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.7.131)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 03:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks Marlon...I won't be immersing in wort but in a thermowell with heat trans grease. Is the grease really worth the expense? It is incredibly expensive, I was thinking some mineral oil or petrolatum or some thing. (I'm so cheap)
 

Kent Fletcher (206.170.107.30)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 05:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you try an electronics source for the grease? Maybe one of the surplus outfits? The grease is worth it, IMHO, without it you lose much of the rapid response advantage of a TC.
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.106.194)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

that grease is worth more money than Brewlab's "special" hops
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.129.137)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you can buy heat sink compound at Radio Shack.
 

Droopy (143.115.159.53)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB,

Bill is right: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=276-1372

I know the conversion to CA$ isn't great but you should be okay...
 

ELK (24.10.168.30)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I seem to remember having some old thermocouple wires in my toolbox. Someone gave them to me and said the metal one side was worth some money??
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.103.194)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a radio shack here and they want $14 for a tiny little tube...maybe enough to fill the end of my thermowell. Are the twisted ends ok if they are soldered? Iwas thinking of immersing them in molten solder in the end of my thermowell, will that work?? Maybe I'll just try it, I have lots of wire.
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.114.74)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

after much playing and a call to the Watlow tech help line, I have a measuring PID. I have measured the temp of everything in the house!!! Want to know the temp of my left cheek??? What an outstanding little piece of kit. This weekend in the freezing rain and snow don't come, I shall assemble the new improve Bellybuster Brewery and run some water tests. I would like the PID to learn some values from my system.
BTW my idea about mounting my brewery on a trailer is a go. I've got some designing to do but it should come to life this summer. It's going to be a good summer.
 

Vance Barnes (69.15.38.210)
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's going to be a good summer.

Make the most of the 2 months ;>) Can hops grow in that short a period? Hope you have a good trial run this weekend.
 

Marlon Lang (68.218.227.249)
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB,
If it will stay in the well, use water. Should fit your budget. Also, remember that water freezes at 0C so a good check point is melting ice water.
ELK
The only thermocouple alloys that would probably be worth money would be Platinum/Platinum-Rhodium.
 

Richard Shaffer (64.35.155.194)
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 12:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB, just twist the tc wires together than take a gas torch and fuse the ends. With a little practice you can get a nice ball of fused material on the end. Use thermo grease, if you're going thru all the time of doing it than do a good job. Don't use water in the thermo well, not good. Get the therm grease in a syringe(sp?) with a extension tube on the end so you can fill the well from the end back. Richard.
 

Belly Buster Bob (131.137.245.198)
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 03:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ya you guys are right...I'll get the grease.
Marlon, if I didn't know better I'd say that Budget crack was a slam. Good one.
Thanks for all your help
 

Marlon Lang (68.218.231.44)
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB,
Not a slam. Not my bag.
Richard,
Why would water be bad?
 

Richard Shaffer (64.35.155.194)
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 12:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Marlon, because it would eventually corrode the tc juction and cause errors in the tc readings. Fill it with grease, that way its moisture and air proof and no problems man. Richard.
 

Marlon Lang (68.218.231.44)
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 02:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Richard. I had not considered corrosion of the iron. Usually, my council on thermocouples is to use "k" which would not corrode. BBB (rightfully so !) bought what he could. I wholly agree with your suggestion to use grease. Motor oil would probably work, also.
 

Belly Buster Bob (131.137.245.198)
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 03:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the cheap side of me still wants to use something readily available, how about silicon grease, the stuff that doesn't cure hard. I'm still curious about soldering it in will that affect the reading with the added different metal?
 

chumley (63.227.170.31)
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 05:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Darn, Vance already beat me to the punch. :)
 

Belly Buster Bob (131.137.245.199)
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 06:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mommy...they're pickin on me again.

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