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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Archive through July 24, 2004 * Sleeman Honey Brown Lager < Previous Next >

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Rob McFaul
Junior Member
Username: Robm

Post Number: 72
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wondering if any one has a recipe for this?

What is the suggested yeast?

Rob
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 164
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rob, I don't have a recipe but I am curious why you want to brew this beer. I would buy it (or J.W. Dundee's Honey Brown in the US) rather than brew it.
 

Rob McFaul
Junior Member
Username: Robm

Post Number: 73
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 01:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought it would be fun to try. I have a friend that likes it and challenged me to duplicate it.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 166
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There was a similar question on the HBD a number of years ago that went unanswered. Honey Brown is a lager, which requires cool fermentation temperature (about 50 F or 10 C) and cold (below 40 F) lagering in secondary. The sweetness of this beer comes partially from the use of caramel malt but mostly from honey added just prior to bottling. The tricky part for homebrewers is that this requires force carbonation (and ideally pasteurization as well) so that the yeast doesn't merely ferment the honey.

If you are really up to this challenge (I don't recall if you're an extract or all-grain brewer), let me know and we'll make a stab at a recipe. But unless you have the facilities for lager fermentation and force carbonation, I'm strongly recommending buying a sixer at your local beer store.

(Message edited by BillPierce on July 13, 2004)
 

Ric Heinz
Junior Member
Username: Rheinz

Post Number: 42
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill -

Interesting. I had never considered pasturization prior to kegging and forced carbonation. How would one go about doing that? Any advantages?

I have kind'a taken a shine to the Michelob Honey Lager, it a good breakfast beer.

Ric
Houston, TX
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 167
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The primary reason for pasteurization (or sterile cold filtering) by commercial breweries is to increase the beer's shelf life under a variety of shipping and storage conditions. This is normally not an issue for homebrewers. In the case of beers where sugars of various kinds are added at bottling to increase sweetness, the pasteurization helps prevent any yeast from fermenting the sugar and reducing the sweetness (as well as overcarbonating the beer).

If I were pasteurizing homebrew I would heat it to about 170 F for 15 minutes prior to bottling/kegging. Yes, this will have some effect on flavor but not so much for a beer that has already been lagered.

Of course if the beer is kept refrigerated after being force carbonated there will be no fermentation of the added sugar, so this is another option as well.
 

Doug J
New Member
Username: Doug_j

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill I have to disagree with you a bit.

There is no way on earth I would recommend pasteurization to a homebrewer. Just because of the methods we use in homebrewing, our dissolved oxygen levels are quite a bit higher than those found in commercial beers.

Heating a beer to pasteurization temps with that much DO is going to be extremely detrimental to the flavor of the beer, no matter how long it has been lagered.

I would much prefer that if someone is interested in this that they try your refrigeration option.
 

Geoff Buschur
New Member
Username: Avmech

Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why not use potassium sorbate or campden to kill the yeast before keging and force carbonation?
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 2054
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why not use honey malt to get the honey flavor and sweetness? I used a pound of it in a 5 gallon batch of honey cream ale last year, and it gave MORE than enough honey flavor.
 

Vance Barnes
Advanced Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 816
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or add some honey at knockout to ferment with the wort for the honey flavor. Then add lactose at bottling with the priming sugar for the residual sweetness.

Doug, I don't get that Bill was recommending it. Just that's how it would be done if someone was crazy enough to want to try it.

Like some other clone recipes these are not how the commercial breweries do it, just options for homebrewers to try to duplicate something that's beyond our scope. Sorta like pseudo-lambic (that's certainly an extream example).
 

Yukon Cornellius
Junior Member
Username: Yukoncornellius

Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I believe Geoff is on the right track. There are a couple of different cheap additives used to kill yeast at kegging/bottling time. This is routinely done with cider/coolers because they have a bottling time sugar addition. Any wine making supply shop will be able to help you out.
 

Rob McFaul
Junior Member
Username: Robm

Post Number: 75
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill:

I was looking at using a wort kit from Brew House called a Honey Blonde. I figured if I boiled 200 grams of 120 Caramel Crystal with the kit, it would give it that brown look and feel. Honey part is done. It is worth a try anyway.

Also, I have a small kiln for drying wood. It is 5 X 12 and well insulated. I was thinking that come winter, I could use that for lagering. The temperature is controlled by my computer for heating to 150F. I am sure I could modify it to maintian 48F +- 1 degree. Then by January the temp would be cold enough outside to maintain 32. Of course the problem is that it would probably hold 30 or 40 carboys.

Anybody want to rent lagering space in Scarborough? :-)

Rob
 

Rob McFaul
Junior Member
Username: Robm

Post Number: 76
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, Bill, what yeast do you recommend?
 

Midwest Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Midwestbrewer

Post Number: 279
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll throw my 0.03 CDN (that's 0.02 USD adjusted for the round bacon eaters).

From time to time I brew a beer that kind of defies logic. Why? Because it has a stupid amount of dextrin (Briess variety) in it, which in turn gives the finished product a distinctive aroma and sweetness that can do very well when there is honey in the beer.

Try this beer. Its a real hit with those who are light beer drinkers.

Dirty Blonde Ale

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------
03-A Light Ale, Blonde Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.060
Min IBU: 15 Max IBU: 33
Min Clr: 2 Max Clr: 8 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 16.00 Wort Size (Gal): 18.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 28.00
Anticipated OG: 1.045 Plato: 11.21
Anticipated SRM: 3.0
Anticipated IBU: 15.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------
Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 22.77 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.032 SG 7.97 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------
Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
75.0 21.00 lbs. Briess 2-Row U.S. 1.035 2
12.5 3.50 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2
12.5 3.50 lbs. Honey 1.036 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Willamette Whole 5.50 10.2 60 min.
1.00 oz. Willamette Whole 5.50 5.2 30 min.


Yeast
-----
WYeast 1056 Amercan Ale/Chico

Mash Schedule
-------------
Mash Type: Multi Step

Grain Lbs: 24.50
Water Qts: 30.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 7.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.22 - Before Additional Infusions

Acid Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Protein Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Intermediate Rest Temp : 140 Time: 15
Saccharification Rest Temp : 151 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 15
Sparge Temp : 168 Time: 45

Total Mash Volume Gal: 9.46 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.


(Message edited by MidwestBrewer on July 16, 2004)
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 203
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Honey Brown is a lager, Rob. Almost any good lager strain would do as long as you keep the fermentation temperature below 12 C (54 F).

The hard part about this beer for homebrewers is that it's genuinely sweet in the finish but not really full-bodied. You have to find a way to keep the yeast from fermenting the added sugar in the honey.
 

Rob McFaul
Junior Member
Username: Robm

Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guess, I could try Sorbate and force carb.
 

Ozroorat
New Member
Username: Ozroorat

Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 08:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Horse Hockey Bill! A little honey malt a little Bohemian lager yeast a touch of chocolate malt. Mash a tad higher than normal.

Bill have you ever even drank this beer?? Have you considered the upcoming riding event in Outer Mongolia? I think you may need to get away for a bit.
 

Richard Nye
Member
Username: Yeasty_boy

Post Number: 148
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doug (or anyone else for that matter),
Why does homebrew have more dissolved oxygen than commercial beers? After my beer ferments it never sees O2 until it gets in my pint glass. I push everything with CO2, and the yeast should be consuming all the O2 when it ferments.
 

Doug J
New Member
Username: Doug_j

Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 11:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Heya Richard.

If you indeed make every transfer using CO2 to push into CO2 pressurized containers and hoses then your homebrew may not have so much dissolved oxygen as most, but I have a sneaking suspicion that 99% of homebrewers do not do it that way.
 

Michael
Junior Member
Username: Michaelg

Post Number: 85
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 04:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A quick warning about using sorbate--winemakers use it with potassium metabisulfite.

Also, I don't think it will stop an active fermentation. It stops the yeast from reproducing, I think, but it won't hurt active yeast.
 

aleman
Member
Username: Aleman

Post Number: 102
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorbate in beer makes no sense. That is right up there with fan cooled wort fermented in trash bags.