Topics Topics Help/Instructions Help Edit Profile Profile Member List Register  
Search Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Visit The Brewery's sponsor!
Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Archive through September 09, 2004 * Aluminum Beer Bottles < Previous Next >

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
 

Carl McCoy
Junior Member
Username: Ib4it

Post Number: 46
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is something I never seen before
http://www.alcoa.com/package/en/pittsburgh_brewing.asp
I wonder if they are screw off? If not they might be a great container for bottling beer in.
 

Bill Tobler
Intermediate Member
Username: Billt

Post Number: 255
Registered: 08-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

-- an unbreakable, resealable container....

It looks like they are probably screw off. Pretty good idea though. More megaswill for the masses....
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson,Texas
BrewBayou
My Brewery
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 355
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whatever goes around, comes around, as a friend would say. The first beer cans, introduced in the 1930s, were made of coated steel and had a crown cap; they were very similar in shape to the the stubby glass bottles of the '60s and '70s. As Bill T. suggests, these aluminum "bottles" likely are a screw-top version.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 2153
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A local microbrewery has been selling Moose Drool in these bottles for a while. They cost twice as much as the glass bottle product, which is why I haven't tried it yet. Plus, three times the aluminum would surely lead to dementia...
 

PalerThanAle
Senior Member
Username: Palerthanale

Post Number: 1046
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The dementia would be cancelled out if they brewed it in an aluminum kettle. I think...

PTA
 

Ric Heinz
Junior Member
Username: Rheinz

Post Number: 75
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"...container that keeps beer colder longer than glass, according to Pittsburgh Brewing..."

How can that be? Isn't aluminum highly conductive, even more so than copper?

Ric
Brewing in NW Houston
 

Brian Garber
Junior Member
Username: Bgarber

Post Number: 60
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry about this, but I figured it would be a good thread to ask.

What does BMC mean? I couldn't find it in a search and couldn't find it in the acronym links from the FAQ's.
 

Ric Heinz
Junior Member
Username: Rheinz

Post Number: 76
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Budweiser, Miller, Coors I believe.

Ric
Brewing in NW Houston
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 2154
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BMC = Bud, Miller, Coors. see also macro-brewed megaswill.
 

Bill Tobler
Intermediate Member
Username: Billt

Post Number: 257
Registered: 08-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brian, that depends on how it's used, but if you found it here somewhere, it probably means Bud, Miller, Coors....
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson,Texas
BrewBayou
My Brewery
 

Joseph Listan
Member
Username: Poonstab

Post Number: 137
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Copper has better heat transfer than aluminum, if I recall correctly. It is actually one of the most heat-conductive "common" metals there is. Aluminum conducts better than stainless steel, but not nearly as well as copper.

A general rule of thumb is that the denser the metal or alloy, the better it conducts heat. This is only a general rule, and as always, there are exceptions.
 

Ric Heinz
Junior Member
Username: Rheinz

Post Number: 77
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Huh..."The bottles have three times the aluminum of a typical beer can. That gives them superior insulation, Alcoa spokesman Kevin Lowery said."

Joseph - I guess it's the strength of the aluminum that allows it to be formed into better shapes providing for better heat transfer then copper, as in the aluminum radiators found on race cars.

The aluminum bottles are noted to be 3 times thicker than the cans, and therefore probably easy to reuse.

Ric
Brewing in NW Houston
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 365
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, aluminum is a much better conductor of heat than glass but not quite as good as copper, as Joseph mentions. Aluminum cans (or bottles) cool more quickly than glass but also warm up more quickly after being taken from the refrigerator.
 

Vance Barnes
Advanced Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 951
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And if you were putting a decent beer in an AL bottle, why would you want it to stay cold an hour longer?

Recon they just recycle these bottles or are they returnable and reusable.
 

don price
Intermediate Member
Username: Donzoid

Post Number: 425
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As an ignorant hillbilly I would prefer my Iron City beer from a steel bottle...

http://www.conetop.com/lphpIron%20City.JPG

Don
 

Tim @ T-N-T BREWERY
New Member
Username: Timtntbrewery

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Looks like a nice item for a bottle colletion!
 

Brett Hetherington
Junior Member
Username: Bretth

Post Number: 94
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 06:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Aluminum bottles give the Iron City brand higher visibility in a crowded, image-conscious market."

Sheesh... are people really that gullible to the marketing machine?

-Brett H
 

Colby Enck
New Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 24
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Sheesh... are people really that gullible to the marketing machine?"

More so, I would say. When my buddies seem reluctant to try my brews, I don't know if it's because they don't like my beers or if the scraps of old labels stuck to the bottles turns them off. I bet if I prettied them up, they'd drink 'em.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 375
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Marketing people are all about image. To them beer is a commodity product that needs to be differentiated from the competition. The notions we have about character and quality are largely lost on the marketers, and sadly on most mainstream beer drinkers as well.
 

Bob B
Member
Username: Bobb

Post Number: 147
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Colby, Maybe you should glue aluminum foil onto your bottles and tell your friends all the top brewers in PA are going to the new alumimum bottles.
 

Joseph Listan
Member
Username: Poonstab

Post Number: 138
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think aluminum radiators are used in race cars because aluminum is lighter than copper, with a sufficient tolerance for heat and enough transfer to do the job. But I am sure that copper has better heat transfer. It is interesting that computers have aluminum heat sinks on their CPUs and not copper. I wonder why...

My brother-in-law is building a super-lightweight "sleeper" with an aluminum engine, but he still has to use steel for the exhaust pipes, as aluminum would melt. I will tell him about the aluminum radiator, which should shed a few more pounds.
 

Joseph Listan
Member
Username: Poonstab

Post Number: 139
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, check it out:

http://store.yahoo.com/bellacopper/metheattrans.html

There is a spiffy little graph at the top of the page, and it looks like aluminum is about 2/3 as efficient as copper, but both are WAY better than stainless. I was surprised how low the stainless was. It is almost a freakin' insulator!

Also, density is a factor that is separate from the heat transfer, but it does have a substantial impact. I retract my "general rule" statement, but assert that density is important. The graph may include both the material's thermal coefficient as well as the density. Dunno...

If they want a metal bottle as an insulator, they ought to use stainless. I wish there were some data on there about glass.
 

Magnus Graham
Member
Username: Cellarman

Post Number: 173
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The extra shipping cost of the necks at the top of the package will surely put an end to this misguided scheme and regular cylindrical cans will return... now why don't I patent a square can... or even a hexagonal one. The reduction in shipping volume would be considerable. Fredrik should be able to work that one out for me.

Magic
 

Ric Heinz
Junior Member
Username: Rheinz

Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joseph -

I too looked up the conduction coefficients of both copper and aluminum and saw the same thing you did. I too was a little surprised.

I think the difference, at least from a radiator standpoint, is that the aluminum is stronger, allowing it to be "shaped" into better heat transfer surfaces (more surface?)than copper can.

Ric
Brewing in NW Houston
 

Patrick C.
Member
Username: Patrickc

Post Number: 160
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't have the exact numbers, but copper is around $0.80 to $1 per pound. Aluminum is $0.40 - $0.50. Aluminum is much stronger too, but for high volume automotive parts it always comes back to $$$.
 

Gerry Pflepsen
New Member
Username: Gpflepsen

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 03:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The only possible way these bottle perform better than glass in insulating the beer, is if the Al bottle is made similar to a vacuum thermos bottle. That is to say it has an outer and inner skin, perhaps separated by a vacuum.

That would be truly innovative for a beer bottle.
 

Marlon Lang
Intermediate Member
Username: Marlonlang

Post Number: 357
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 01:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AS Patrick C. says, it comes down to $$$. Stainless has a very poor heat transfer coefficent. But, is is much stronger than copper or aluminum, so a can made from stainless could be very much thinner than a can made from aluminum or copper. Unfortunately, the cost reduction associated with the thinner wall will not compensate for the higher cost of the material. (The mangenese, chrome, molylibdium, and nickel to make stainless come from Russia and Africa.) Then, there is the matter of availibility. Bauxite ore (for aluminum) generally comes from third-world places that do not tend to have regular upheaveals (e.g. Jamacia whereas copper comes from places that are less stable (e.g. South America and Montana!) And although copper and aluminum have excellent heat transfer coefficents, copper tends to end up in wire because old fogys like me would rather have it our wire and transformers than aluminum. Finally, there is the matter of recycling. Because aluminum has a very low melting point, recycling is a snap and the utlimate cost of an aluminum can is very low. Glass is probably the cheapest container on a first-made basis because it is made from sand. Personally, I want my beer in glass long-necks.
 

Jared Cook
Intermediate Member
Username: Jared

Post Number: 396
Registered: 09-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 02:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is interesting that computers have aluminum heat sinks on their CPUs and not copper. I wonder why...

This is a little late, but not ALL heat sinks are aluminum. In fact, high performance heat sinks are almost always make of copper. No overclocker would ever use an aluminum heatsink.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 2186
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 02:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>>whereas copper comes from places that are less stable (e.g. South America and Montana!)

Last I checked, we in Montana have been a state in this great U.S. of A. of ours since 1889 without any revolutions or upheavals (okay, maybe our copper kings did buy a few elections 100 years ago, but at least our governor isn't appointing his fudgepacking pal to a +$100,000/yr post!).

((Thanks, Marlon, for setting me up to slam yet another state I detest, New Jersey. Bill P. is probably shuddering in case Ontario comes on my radar screen - hopefully I won't be ostracized from the B&V because of my viewpoints.)) :^)

Copper mining is alive and well in Montana, especially at the greatest mining city of all time:

http://www.montanaresources.com/operations.htm
 

Jeffery Swearengin
Intermediate Member
Username: Beertracker

Post Number: 398
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Megaswill in an aluminum bottle. Mmmm? What will they think of next to get the masses to buy it?
CHEERS! Beertracker

"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers