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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Archive through August 30, 2004 * Burner flame review < Previous Next >

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Onebarrel
Junior Member
Username: Onebarrel

Post Number: 54
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know this has been rehashed here several times but I just can't seem to find the info I need with the search function.

The problem I have is a yellowish flame from a metal fusion type burner running wide open, I took off the air throttle plate off but still cannot achieve a completely blue flame.

What can I do? do I close up the oriface size a bit or ream out the casting to get more air into it?

Funny thing is that none of these burners are alike - I have 3 units but only the one has this problem!
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 382
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 05:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Several people have reported similar problems due to slag clogging the burner casting. You might try reaming it out.
 

Paul Edwards
Intermediate Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 453
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found spider eggs in the body of my burner that was causing that sort of problem.

Has this particular burner always had this problem, or is it a recent development?
 

Onebarrel
Junior Member
Username: Onebarrel

Post Number: 55
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is a bit of slag on the castings where the die comes together at the parting line - it is a bit more pronounced on this burner than the other two.

There is no crap inside the burner bodies as they are new and they were fired up for the first time recently.

I know if I ream out the inside of the burner casting or open up the back where the air comes in there is no going back - material removeal vs welding but geting more air into it will reduce the yellow flame.

Playing with the fuel oriface is the other option : with the pressure at maximum (wide open) what are the results as far as opening up that hole? this puts more propane into the burner cavity, but what does it do to the flame? If the air vent is wide opened there are only so many options left.
 

Doug W
Junior Member
Username: Pivorat

Post Number: 48
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

more fuel into the burner doesnt equate to more oxygen or air into the unit to allow for a better flame. .... Might sound funny, but did you try soaking the burner in Hot soapy water or running it thru the dishwasher and reinstalling it yet. I have done both and It helped greatly with a crusty cajun cooker unit a friend had. Other then that I think taking a small round file or pick of some sort and removing any potentially slag or blockage is your only option, less swapping the burner unit with the source.
 

Bill Moore
Member
Username: Bill_beerman

Post Number: 147
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do you get a blue flame at lower flow rates?
If you do, you're probably not getting enough air intake. I'd put the air throttle back on and see at what point you lose a good flame.
I also noticed on one of my burners that the gas line body had to tilt slightly down towards the burner since it's a low pressure regulator.
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 459
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 11:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Even if it is new, the first thing I would do is pull out the center "swirl" plate in the burner. It takes very little restriction to impede the flow, and your poor combustion is due to low flow.

I've done this on my own burner and on other club members' rigs. The hot soapy water cleanup is also good advice, but you MUST take the burner apart to be certain you've got a clear path.

Oh, and Bill, a MF burner should not be run on a low pressure (11-13" w.c.) regulator.

(Message edited by Fletch on August 26, 2004)
 

Connie
Member
Username: Connie

Post Number: 204
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 01:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know about these other burners, but mine (Cajun Kooker) is a one piece cast iron burner and other than removing the air baffle, there's no other parts to remove and there's no way to get to the inside to remove slagg or de-burr a poor casting. I have used a paper clip and once a small drill bit to clean out the rust in the holes and blew the loose particles out with pressurized air, didn't help! It still blows the flame off the burner. I can use it, just at a much reduced BTU output and it takes a while to get 13+ gallons up to a boil from the cold water spigot. I've considered at least replacing the HLT burner with something that will crank up the boil.
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 461
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Connie, the OP has a Metal Fusion burner, which is commonly used in quite a few turkey cookers, like the Bayoo Classic, King Cooker, etc. The center plate is removable. You might want to get one of these, they are pretty high performance. Burner

Bayoo Classic sells it for a whopping $11 plus shipping. You might also need a high pressure regulator, better yet get the adjustable one. http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/subcategory_30_1.htm
Edit: They sell it without the orifice, so you'll have to order that as well, another $2.

If your burner looks like this, it IS a low pressure burner, and probably not good for more than 15 -20 K of real output, even though I've seen them listed anywhere from 35 to 50 K. Burners are rated by the input (amount of gas they consume), not heat output.
LP burner

(Message edited by Fletch on August 27, 2004)
 

Connie
Member
Username: Connie

Post Number: 205
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kent,
Thank you! My burner does look somewhat like the one in your picture although the box says 150K. My system is hard piped for propane so I'll replace both the HLT and the boil burner....and check the regulator. The Metal Fusion burner you show is what I've had in mind for a while.
 

David S.
Member
Username: Dsundberg

Post Number: 127
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had a low pressure burner like the one in Fletch's picture. I found spider webs in it that could hardly be seen. I blew them out and blue flames were back.

I replaced it with a high pressure burner like to top one in the picture. Bought it complete with a stand for $19.00 at a sporting goods store. I love it!
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 464
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I got a Bayoo Classic cooker set from Home Despot for my second batch ever. I later took that (Metal Fusion) burner out of the stand and installed it in the brew frame I built. I had a low pressure ring shaped burner (like the second pic in my earlier post), converted to Natural Gas, for the HLT. It burned clean, but was pitifully underpowered. I recently purchased one of these from http://www.thegrillstoreandmore.com/burners.asp
I've got it piped in with an automatic gas valve, with intermittent pilot control, that I salvaged from a furnace (cost: $10 at the local scrap yard). Got the valve hooked up to an electronic temp control, works great!burner
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 1829
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

those burners get great cool points
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 465
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most of the time now I'm doing 10 gallon (or larger) batches, and I need to heat that water in a hurry. At the moment I'm still using the old propane MF bruner for the BK, but will probably get another one of the 23 jet NG burners soon, no more propane!

BTW, this 23 jet burner was only $48, shipped.
 

michael atkins
New Member
Username: Mga

Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 11:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not to hi-jack a thread-----but. Has anybody ever disassembled your burners and soaked your burners, hoses, and regulators in star-san?

Did it correct any problems? I am thinking about doing this.

Thanks
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 475
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 02:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't begin to think of a reason why you would want to soak them in Star San.

If you think you have some accumulation of dirt (or sugars from wort boilovers), just soak them in very hot PBW solution. Or just very hot water with dishwasher detergent.
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 476
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 02:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and don't soak your regulator in ANY kind of liquid, EVER!! Gas regulators need to be clean and DRY. They have relatively delicate springs and diaphragms, and do not react well to being immersed.
 

Dan Listermann
Intermediate Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 417
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 03:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A fellow Bloatarian was brewing at my shop on Nat'l Homebrew Day a few years ago and had to disassemble his burner twice to clean up after a boil over.

Dan Listermann
 

Dave Witt
Intermediate Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 463
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kent,

What kind of performance are you getting on that new burner AFA heating time? Our B3 200k NG takes about 1/2 hr to get 22 gal cold water to about 170.
 

Kentucky Dan
New Member
Username: Kydan47

Post Number: 56
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 04:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speaking of disassembly, a plumbing friend of mine told me how he removes the hold down bolt, takes off the disbursion ring, and replaces the bolt. The ring sits on the bolt and is taken off to clean up boil overs.

I have retapped several burners to install longer bolts and have started putting the bolt in from the bottom and hand tightening the dispersion ring. Then when clean up after a boil over, it is just a simple matter of loosening by hand and a little scrapping or brushing.

Just a thought.

Kentucky dan
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 478
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dave, only done one brew with it since installing it earlier this month, and I didn't clock it. I'll be doing a firkin sized batch of DIPA this week. I'll try to remember to time it and not the starting temp of the water.

Every time I do calcs on burner efficiency, electric elements look better. It only takes a little over 20 KBTUs to raise 22 gallons of water from 60 to 170. So doing that in 1/2 hour means that your burner transfered heat to the kettle at about 40 KBTU/Hr, or 20% efficiency (assumiong that the burner was consuming the rated 200 KBTU/Hr of fuel). In actuality, I think the B3 rating is inflated.

The burner I have is about the same size as B3's 200K, but mine is only rated 130K by the seller, which is probably much closer to the mark.
 

Mike Mayer
Intermediate Member
Username: Mmayer

Post Number: 287
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cleanup after a boil over?????? What's that all about??? I've boiled over several times with no ill effects. Ok, so my burners are not a pretty as they were when they were new, but they all burn a nice blue flame after all the crud burns away!!
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 480
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It depends on the burner, and to some extent on dumb luck. If the boilover puts out the flame, which I've seen quite a few times, the burner should definitely be cleaned.

Remember folks, besides the aesthetics, and beyond not wanting to soot up our kettles, there are important safety issues involved here. Poor combustion of fuel gas can and does result in generation of dangerous byproducts, notably Carbon Monoxide (CO). Even brewing outdoors, inhaling CO is bad.
 

Mike Mayer
Intermediate Member
Username: Mmayer

Post Number: 288
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, call me dumb and lucky then....I'm off to clean my burners.....
 

Carl McCoy
Junior Member
Username: Ib4it

Post Number: 48
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 12:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have never cleaned mine. I let it sit out in the rain for weeks at a time. Hit it with a hammer a couple times and it's nice and clean.
 

Kent Fletcher
Intermediate Member
Username: Fletch

Post Number: 484
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 01:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Like I said before, it varies. If you have the Metal Fusion type burner with the swirl plate in the center, cleaning it can make a big difference in performance.