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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Archive through October 04, 2004 * Drinking and health < Previous Next >

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Colby Enck
Junior Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 59
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan Listermann said:

"A doctor in our club once told us, when asked how many beer it might take to blow a liver, that about a case a day for 14 years.

When asked how he handled hangovers, he said 800 Iboprophen and a lot of water. Never Tylanol."

I have heard that Tylenol and alcohol are VERY bad for the liver, and now I always take Advil when the head's pounding after a few too many. I've found multivitamins and lotsa water (the night before) seem to help, too, btw.

But I don't know if I believe the above doctor. Haven't we all heard how bad drinking a lot (even less than a case a day) can screw up the liver. Or is it that your alcohol must ONLY be in beer form? Does wine or liquor do more harm? Or what about binge drinking?

In college and the years following, I drank WAY too much. Multiple beers/shots an evening, 3-6 nights a week, plus lotsa partying (binge-ing) on w/ends (but NEVER a case in a day -- I don't think) . Last year I found out my liver functions were screwy b/c of it. I went off alcohol for 6 months, and my numbers were back to normal. Now I have 3 or 4 beers a week (all homebrew, I'm proud to say). I feel a hell of a lot better now, and can't believe I used to live like that. Anyways, I find it hard to believe that if I had drunk only beer and not liquor or wine I'd've been alright.

It just dawned on me that the doc might've told me my liver was bad just to straighten me out, but that's pretty cynical (and no reason to go back to living like that, anyways).
 

Bob L.
Junior Member
Username: Bobcaat

Post Number: 67
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is an excerpt from ABC news 08/03/01.

How much must one drink, and for what period of time, before cirrhosis becomes a likely outcome?

HOWARD WORMAN, MD: You can't predict with an individual person. Some people can drink two bottles of whisky a day and never get cirrhosis, and never even get liver disease. Some people can drink three drinks a day for many years and develop cirrhosis. It's difficult to predict.

Does it matter what kind of alcohol a person drinks?

CAROL SEMRAD, MD: No. Too much of any alcohol can result in liver damage, although high amounts over years, in general, is more dangerous. But cirrhosis can result from lower amounts over a more prolonged time.

Excessive drinking can lead to something called "fatty liver". What is fatty liver exactly?

HOWARD WORMAN, MD: Fatty liver is the accumulation of fat in the liver cells. As fat accumulates, the liver can become yellowish. It may not be that much of a problem in and of itself, but fatty liver can progress to other problems, especially if you continue to drink.

How does the problem start?

HOWARD WORMAN, MD: If a person goes out for several nights in a row and has many drinks, they can accumulate fat in the liver. But the fat will go away after they stop drinking. If they continue to drink this way, then they will develop more serious problems.

8-3-01 ABCNEWS
 

PalerThanAle
Senior Member
Username: Palerthanale

Post Number: 1139
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 08:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has anyone tried Chaser and does it really work? Semi off topic but a related tangent.

PTA
You don't stop laughing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop laughing.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 731
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The mother of my best friend in high school died from cirrhosis and she never drank (they were members of a religious group that avoided alcohol).

The medical experts I trust believe that most men can handle 3-4 beers a day without medical problems, and women 2-3 beers. The caloric intake should be taken into account, and I'm not sure I would advocate this seven days a week.

Of course there is not universal agreement about this.
 

J. Steinhauer
Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 224
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob and Bill are both correct. The volume is different per the individual. Other things cause cirrhosis. Viral hepatitis (B, which has a vaccine and is sexually and IV transmitted and C, which is usually only IV transmitted). Congenital diseases, that often go undetected until liver problems ensue, like alpha-1-antitrypsin deficiency, hemochromatosis (iron accumulation) and Wilson's disease (copper accumulation). Medications, toxins, autoimmune diseases, as well. Steatohepatitis can be alcoholic (ASH) or non-alcoholic (NASH). Alcoholic steatohepatitis is the step after fatty liver. It causes fibrosis, which is not reversible. NASH can result from obesity, diabetes, hyperlipidemia, medications, toxins, etc.

In general, moderate consumption is considered to be about two per day (12 oz. beer, 5 oz. wine, 1 oz. liquor). But this can still be too much for some individuals. The debate is really whether this small amount of alcohol is beneficial. Alcohol combined with the diseases mentioned above has an additive effect. In the moderate drinker, Tylenol is not usually a problem (but I don't use it), but I am more of a binge drinker (rarely on weeknights, several on weekends). The career and body habitus won't have it any other way. Ibuprofen causes gastrointestinal injury, even in normal doses, and I don't use that either. Hangovers are best avoided (plenty of water between drinks and no drinking on an empty stomach). The only cure is time and fluid replacement.

Besides the liver, alcohol damages the stomach (gastritis), the brain (larger doses), the heart, the bone marrow, the pancreas. The stomach probably first, then the liver, then the rest.

Anyway, it doesn't even compare to smoking, which is bad for you in any amount.
 

Colby Enck
Junior Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 62
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 07:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Steinhauer, always the bearer of bad news?

Of course, I agree w/ all of the above. I find myself doing whatever possible to avoid the hangovers, including not being an ass like I was before!

Guess I'm just surprised that Mr. Listermann's doctor buddy would make such a statement as he mentioned. Of course, 'to blow a liver' could mean the extreme of extremes, i.e. it just goes ker-chunk and dies. I've heard the liver is a pretty hardy organ in most cases and can actually repair itself pretty quickly (I guess I am an example of that myself). Don't know about the brain and all the others though .
 

Geoff Buschur
Member
Username: Avmech

Post Number: 166
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You guys need to read a great book called Drink as Much as You Want and Live Longer It is an easy read and the author covers several aspects of liver heath and drinking health.

IMHO one should never ever take any type of pain medication if they are a regular drinker. You drank too much; you need to be strong enough to deal with the consequences.

Chasers does not work. It is a charcoal pill that absorbs alcohol in your stomach, but you still digest it later in your intestines. It just prolongs the agony. There is a much better product on the market called RU-21 this is a great product that did wonders for me after a few marathon drinking sessions.
 

Heath
Junior Member
Username: Frizedo

Post Number: 31
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dont know if this works for anyone else, but I usually slam down the hottest hot sauce I have a little bread and water might follow. that all depends on if I used the habenero sauce again. I rarely get hangovers, usually when my cousin comes over. Which ends up to be a marathon tile job and binge drinking fiesta. It shows in the grout lines.
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 1916
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RU-21 was developed by the scientists at the Russian Academy of Sciences in the course of a 25-year-long research project studying alcohol metabolism.
imagine that.....
 

Brewmasher
Junior Member
Username: Brewmasher

Post Number: 47
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A vitamin supplement available at health food stores called "Liverite" works for me. Helps boost liver function.

Heath- the effect of rehydration caused by drinking a gallon of cold water to put out the fire is the real cure in your method. :}
 

Kevin Davis
Junior Member
Username: Ktdavis98

Post Number: 90
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am more in favor of RU-469. Oops strike that it is a birth control method!
Kevin
 

Dan Mourglea
Intermediate Member
Username: Cataclysmbrewer

Post Number: 439
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 07:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I always rehydrate, after a night of drinking, before I hit the sack. . .a couple of quarts of good ol' H20 (or more) really does the trick. (I find it is easier to drink cool tap water than to try to fight down really cold water.) Using this method, I haven't had a hangover (other than a feeling I call the dum-dums) since my sophomore year of college.
 

J. Steinhauer
Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 226
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you THINK those supplements work, then I guess they do. It's your money. I think they are the same things that increase the size of your..., increase the intensity of your..., and effectively make that guy in St. Kitt's, Windward Islands rich.
 

Brandon Dachel
Senior Member
Username: Brandon

Post Number: 1230
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

> If you THINK those supplements work, then I
> guess they do.

Ding, ding, ding. :-)
...and the answer is none. None more black.
 

J. Steinhauer
Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or is it Ka-ching!?