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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Archive through December 21, 2004 * Using Nottingham at 60 F < Previous Next >

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Adding a thermometer to SS conicalErnie Kautzmann12-21-04  01:45 am
Fredrik's Taste BudsFredrik12-20-04  04:55 pm
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Author Message
 

Joel Gallihue
Member
Username: Gallibrew

Post Number: 114
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 04:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After discussion with Fredrik I took the plunge and used Nottingham. I adjusted my recipe by adding an extra pound of crystal malt for an APA. The fermentation was kept at about 60F. I got a clean flavor w/ subdued ale yeast notes. I do not find the flavor profile to be washed out or dried out although I can see how this could happen as it was much drier than my crystal malt would suggest. I'd use it again.

Joel
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 1868
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 05:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joel, glad to hear it worked to your preferences. I'm curious what fermentation/primary times you got for your given pitching rate?

I think it's a good idea to tune the target residual extract for the strain attenuation, either by adding low fermentability contributors, like crystal or dextrinmalt, or increase the mashtemp. I've done it every time and most of my nottingham beers are sweeter than most commercial beers. I don't like dry beers much.

/Fredrik
 

Steve Anderson
Member
Username: Steveinmemphis

Post Number: 114
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I made a 10 gallon batch of APA yesterday. I split it into two 5 gallon primaries and pitched Nottingham in one and Safeale 04 in the other. Both are chugging away at about 59F ambient. Since they are in plastic buckets, I figure the actual wort temp is 3-5 degrees higher (depending on the amount of fermentation activity).
 

Peter Roman
Intermediate Member
Username: Lilbordr

Post Number: 442
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 01:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now that the rigerous fermentation of my nottinghams cream ale is over, can I raise the temp back up to 68F while the yeast starts to floc out or will that produce fruity esters?

Thanks,
Peter Roman
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1542
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Before I answer that question, how do you know it's done? What is the current O.G.? If it's really within a point or two of the target F.G., then, yes, I think you can raise the temperature without consequences.
 

Peter Roman
Intermediate Member
Username: Lilbordr

Post Number: 443
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

See thats the problem. I don't have my wine theif here so I have no real way of knowing. There is no more activity in the lock and the surface has almost completely cleared. I would assuming the majority of the fermentation is over.

Thanks,
Peter Roman
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1543
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 01:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You could take a sample with a sanitized turkey baster (available at a dollar store), but if you don't want the bother, wait one more day and assume it's done.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 1871
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 01:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With nottingham as most most brews I tend to often let go of any cooling and let raise to room temp during the finish, and I haven't had any significant esters if the first part was cooler, no worries.

In theory esters are produce late in fermentation, but unless there is a big amount of fuesels available due to a warm start, the ester potential is limited already.

For nottingham I let go of the cooling before it stops completely, probably so even if there is still a couple of points to go, I think there should be no risk for ester production at this stage with nottingham.

/Fredrik
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 1872
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 02:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FWIW, even when I don't have the bubble logger hooked up I always keep an eye on fermentation performance, lag time, peaks, peak times and the slowing down. I write down, lag time, peak time, peak bpm, etc. If the lag time is more than 24 hours I would question the yeast. Also if it takes a long time several days to hit the peak I would be equally concerned. With this information I can quite accurately tell if the fermentation is likely to be done. First I judge the general quality of performance, if the performance profile is good, it means my yeast is good, and unless you crash cool or do anything else weird, I feel confident that there is no risk for sluggish behaviour and when the bulling stops and is consistent with a general good fermentation profile (I plot it in excel), I trust that it's done.

I my last batches I never take a gravity reading before racking, I take it after racking, or usually at bottling for book keeping purpose and to see if I was on target or not. But lately it has been on target, and if the fermetation performance is good and it's still not on target the cause is the wort and not the yeast and there is nothing to do about it anyway yeastwise except possibly adding enzymes.

However if your yeast performance is bad, there may be more cause for gravity checks as the probability for premature flocculation etc.

After some brews with a certain strain one can learn what a good fermentation profile looks like. Once you know that I would personally trust that as an indicator. This procedure has not yet failed me.

Of course taking a reading is still a good doublecheck, but if you can't, this is what I'd do.

/Fredrik
 

Peter Roman
Intermediate Member
Username: Lilbordr

Post Number: 444
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 02:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, the nottingham is acting the way most dry yeast does for me. It ferments very quickly. I pitched at 4pm on saturday and now it appears to be mostly complete. I am going to rack to cornies tommorow evening then cold crash in the kegerator. Ill make sure to check the SG before committing to a cold crash. If there are few more points to go I'll let the corny sit at room temp over the break. I might even bring one home to Albany.

Thanks,
Peter Roman
 

Joel Gallihue
Member
Username: Gallibrew

Post Number: 115
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 03:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fredrik,

The one that is done is an odinary bitter at 1.040. Fermentation seemed to be done in about two or three days but I didn't get a chance to measure the gravity then. I had a demand for a keg at a work party come up and checked it after eight days and it was terminal (1.008). So I kegged it and they licked it up at the work holiday party today.

sorry I missed that data point. Just have to set up another experiment!

Joel
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 1873
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 06:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you are going to crash cool it you want to be more confident it's done, I thought you were just racking to secondary. At least in theory, I think crash cooling something that ain't 100% finished *might* havea chance of causing more off flavours, like acetaldehyde and maybe some other stuff too as yeast does some "cleaning up" during the finish. After it's "done" I usually let it sit awhile to also get less junk in my bottles, any fractions of the last point will settle too. I don't have any experience with crash cooling it prematurely, but I am would be careful about doing it.

Joel, that sounds like good performance! my guess is that you can go much lower in temperature too if you want to and still get decent performance. But since nottingham is clean enough at those temps, I am not sure what the benefit would be by going even lower than than, except good old curiousity of course :-)

/Fredrik

(Message edited by fredrik on December 21, 2004)
 

Richard Nye
Intermediate Member
Username: Yeasty_boy

Post Number: 393
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter, when you crash cool, a lot of yeast will come out of the beer. If it's in the serving corny, that yeast will cloud your beer some. I'd rack it to a secondary then crash cool it. If you don't have a secondary, I'd crash cool it in the primary. Only do that when you know the FG has been reached. You should get about 75%-77% apparent attenuation.
 

Peter Roman
Intermediate Member
Username: Lilbordr

Post Number: 447
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can I secondary in cornies at room temp? Do I have to worry about gas buildup in the keg?

Thanks,
Peter Roman
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1547
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In a word, yes, Peter, you need to be careful about the buildup of pressure when using corny kegs as secondary fermenters. You can't be sure that fermentation has absolutely completed when you rack the beer. You can bleed off the pressure a few times a day for the first day or two, and daily thereafter. Or you can leave the lid only loosely fitted over the top. I knew a homebrewer who temporarily removed the poppet and slipped a balloon over the gas-in post.
 

Peter Roman
Intermediate Member
Username: Lilbordr

Post Number: 448
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can I attach an airlock to a gas QD?

Or better yet, can I unscrew the blow off valve and somehow stick a airlock in that? Anyone ever do this?

Thanks,
Peter Roman

(Message edited by lilbordr on December 21, 2004)
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1550
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With the poppet removed, you can attach an airlock to the gas-in post with a short piece of plastic tubing. Yes, I have also seen this done with the pressure relief valve removed from the keg lid.

(Message edited by BillPierce on December 21, 2004)
 

Doug Pescatore
Senior Member
Username: Doug_p

Post Number: 1042
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess I'm missing something with all of these posts about Nottingham. It is a simple to use dry yeast. Throw 2 packs in a 5 gallon batch and aerate (or not) and a week or so later you will have beer. Try to keep the fermentation temps in the mid to low 60s, but it can go as low as 55F.

The beer may be somewhat drier than other yeasts and it tends to bring out the bittering addition more than others. In some respects it acts a lot like a Kolsch yeast.

Brewing with Nottingham is not brain surgery. You get a boat load of yeast with each packet and even if you try not to aerate there will be enough O2 in your wort to allow for reproduction.

I have altered one recipe to account for the "over attentuation" of nottingham and if I could do it over again I would not have altered it.

-Doug