Topics Topics Help/Instructions Help Edit Profile Profile Member List Register  
Search Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Visit The Brewery's sponsor!
Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2005 * Archive through January 20, 2005 * Building a Herms < Previous Next >

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
 

Wm John Ivey
Intermediate Member
Username: Fat_elvis

Post Number: 270
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well between all my football pool winnings and gift certificates to my LHBS. I thinking of buying a march 809 hs pump. Is there a web site I can look at to build a manual model? I afraid I'll probobly do a "Roman" and just wing it and spend the next part of the year fine tuning it.
I am feeling sad I'm going away from the Hippy-dippy Denny KISS princible and listening to a punk working at a toy factory :-)>
Later
John
 

Rob Farrell
Member
Username: Robf

Post Number: 223
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 01:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, there's those that do it for the beer, and those that do it for the cool gizmos, flashing lights, beer, and chicks. Welcome to the geek side. Chicks dig flashing lights.
 

Ben Schy
Junior Member
Username: Bens

Post Number: 85
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey John,
If you are a gadgeteer, you are gonna enjoy building your herms. What equipment do you have to start out with?

Ben
 

Rob Farrell
Member
Username: Robf

Post Number: 224
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John,
Definitely get the pump and the associated valve, fitting and tubing. That can be useful without even going HERMS, but once you've done that HERMS is very close. Coil up some copper tubing to drop into your HLT and your HERMsing. Lift the coil out the water to "bypass." Get a feel for it. Then go on eBay and get a PID, SSR, solenoid valve, and lots of flashing lights. Search the forum for "HERMS" and waste days reading about it.

The force is strong in this one.
 

Joseph Listan
Intermediate Member
Username: Poonstab

Post Number: 408
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 04:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Put a coil in your mash tun and connect to a coil in your HLT, use the Force to pump hot water through it and technically you have a HERMS system. This is the first test the budding Padawan Brewer must pass after constructing his stand and imbuing it with his personal Force essence.

All the PIDS and such are for the Jedi Masters, not for lowly Padawans. Patience, young Jedi, patience you must have...
 

Wm John Ivey
Intermediate Member
Username: Fat_elvis

Post Number: 271
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben I brew 10 gal allgrain three tier with a 60qt HLT, a 70qt cooler with S/S hose and my BK is a converted keg. I use a CFC with a wortwizard. Blew a disk in my back thought the pump could help some the lifting and then of course since I'll have a pump why not HERMS?. I haven't decide if I'll convert a spare keg for a MT or stay simple with the cooler.
John "Padawan" Ivey
 

Ben Schy
Junior Member
Username: Bens

Post Number: 86
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John,
Ahh... you have more equipment than I did when I entered into the world of Herms. I only had (and still have) one SS vessel, and thats the BK. I heat up sparge water and pump into a cooler during the mash, and I recirculate through a small, 1-gallon enamle pot fitted with a water heater element. The heat exchange is great, and controlling it only require a controlled solid-state relay (future) or a manual switch (present).
Since you already have a HLT that I assume is fitted with it's own gas burner, you probably wont go my route, but I know atleast a few other out there use a small, external heat exchanger. I love it, as it enables me to do all of my mash/recirc/sparge indoors, and just leave my BK outside for heating up water and boiling.
If you are interesting in any more details, let me know.
A posted some pics and diagrams of my setup a while back at
http://www.beanblog.org/archives20040801.html#84651
Since then, the only major change was an upgrade to a larger mash tun and new manifolds. I now use a Igloo Cube and do 10 gallon batches instead of 5.
Good luck!

(Message edited by bens on January 11, 2005)
 

J. Steinhauer
Intermediate Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 364
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can do a "Steinhauer" and wing it, too. It worked out fine.

Are there things I would do differently? Yes. I could change them now, if it were worth the trouble. It's a system in constant evolution anyway. The things I would change, however, I could not have been convinced to do differently, unless I tried them the original way, first.

I have to tell you, though, since the weather got really cold, and the outside faucet handle broke off, I've been infusion and decoction mashing 5 gallon batches in the kitchen with the old Rubbermaid. It is so easy and fast, it will be hard to go back. It's also increasing the variety I have on hand (more frequent smaller batches).
 

Wm John Ivey
Intermediate Member
Username: Fat_elvis

Post Number: 272
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben are the QD's a definte plus in rigging this monster? Since you have a sparge arm have you ever bacth sparge with your setup? Oh so many questions that bring more money out of pockets :-)
John
 

Ben Schy
Junior Member
Username: Bens

Post Number: 87
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey John,
The QD's are a must in my book! I just keep 4-5 hoses with QD's on both ends on hand so I can hook this to that and that to the other and so on. It makes for a very versitile setup. I opted for the versatility over hard-piping everything because I knew (and still know) that the vessels and equipment in my brewery change on a regular basis.

I've never batch sparged. One of the benefits of recirculating, in my mind anyway, is that you get crystal clear runoff right off the bat. Of course, I guess you could batch, recirc, batch, recirc, but that just seems like too much work.

I built a new combination sparge arm, recirc manifold. It height-adjustable and mounted in the lid of my Igloo Cube MLT. I can swap parts out on it depending on whether I am recirculating (four large drip-points) or sparging (30 or so tiny ones). When I get a chance to post some pics, I'll let the group know.

PS - the QDs I use are the 3/8" Acetal ones from US Plastics. You can see them here
http://tinyurl.com/4jlhc

Ben
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1781
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with Ben about the great flexibility and convenience of quick disconnects. I would, however, recommend using 1/2 inch plumbing throughout the system for fewer circulation problems.

(Message edited by BillPierce on January 11, 2005)
 

Walt Fischer
Senior Member
Username: Walt

Post Number: 1978
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yea.. mines all 1/2 as well...
Well my system is 'abit' over the top, heh, take a peek and maybe it can help ya out with some HERM ideas too :-)

Walt
Lama Brewery
 

Ben Schy
Junior Member
Username: Bens

Post Number: 89
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I haven't had any problems with 3/8". I have it throughout my system and have always had more-than-adequate flow. Plus, the parts are a little cheaper!
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 1977
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also run 3/8 and find it more than adequate and alot cheaper
Bellybuster Bob
www.bellybuster.netfirms.com
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1783
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 10:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I base my recommendations on those of Bill Stewart, who for many years ran the now-defunct Moving Brews and whom I consider the guru of pumps for homebrewing applications. Among his tips was to use 1/2 inch plumbing as much as possible, especally on the input (suction) side of the pump. I carefully followed his advice and always wondered why other people reported problems with their magnetic drive pumps when my system worked nearly flawlessly.
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 1978
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 02:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

must admit my update only includes 1/2" pipe/hose, although the above link to the 3/8 acetal QD's has me thinkin. $1.05 instead of $9 is a drastic difference in price
Bellybuster Bob
www.bellybuster.netfirms.com
 

J. Steinhauer
Intermediate Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 367
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 03:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1/2 inch everything here as well.

At first, used barbs and clamps, due to cost. I have gradually updgraded to all polysulfone QD's from USP.

I would also recommend starting out with hoses rather than hard plumbing. You may want to experiment with one, two, or three tiers and other configurations, and silicone (out) and norprene (in or out) hoses will accomodate you, but copper will not.
 

Wm John Ivey
Intermediate Member
Username: Fat_elvis

Post Number: 273
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Others have told me they use brass hose QD's, any problem with those? What do you all consider the best place for all the pumbling supplies? This padawan head is hurting must have a Homebrew now!
John
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1790
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The brass hose disconnects work (they can leak a little sometimes), but I recommend against using them. It means you have to wear gloves every time you make a hose change because the brass conducts the heat. Otherwise you will burn your hands. Plastic is an insulator and can be handled without any problems.
 

ScottDeW
Member
Username: Scott

Post Number: 215
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd rather have the polysulfone QD's; however, that's just not on the list at present. I've the brass 'el cheapos and, besides an occasional leak and, as Bill pointed out, getting warm, I think they work well enough for the price to beat the snot out of barbs.

I don't use gloves but I've never been accused of being too bright.
Scott
http://texanbrew.com
 

Wm John Ivey
Intermediate Member
Username: Fat_elvis

Post Number: 275
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay guys another question on hoses, since you all know I am cheaply furgal, what about hoses?
Can I use just reinforced plastic or do I need that norpene stuff
John
 

ScottDeW
Member
Username: Scott

Post Number: 216
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 01:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheap hose works fine. It'll get soft when hot and stains with dark beers but it is inexpensive to replace.
Scott
http://texanbrew.com
 

Peter Roman
Intermediate Member
Username: Lilbordr

Post Number: 461
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John,
Don't die in a fiery propane explosion. That would break my freakin heart. Seriously though, all you would need is a pump and some copper. While some would say lift the coil to bypass, I just regulate flow or HLT temp to keep the mash in check. Next brew session however I will have three new additions.
1. PID controlled pump to regulate pump on/off in regards to mash temp (similar to B3's SMART system).
2. A DIY sight guage on my HLT.
3. A thermometer on my kettle (the one off my MT that is being replaced with my DIY thermowell.

My kegerator is getting a little light so I think it's time to start building both my new setup as well as my next recipe.

Cheer,
Peter 'punk working at a toy factory' Roman
 

Wm John Ivey
Intermediate Member
Username: Fat_elvis

Post Number: 277
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter I was wondering when you would chime in. Luckly my HLT has zmyie thermosight, I know PID's will be in fulture, next Xmas of course why should I spend my own monies :-). I wonder though how many brewers like me are trying to keep up with the Romans and expanding their brewers. Keep up the Ideas I love to steal them and claim'em as mine
John
 

Peter Roman
Intermediate Member
Username: Lilbordr

Post Number: 463
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 01:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've come to the conclusion that damn near everything here in terms of building has been done. Really everyone here has just taken and adapted some previous technology (minus Fredrik, Bill, Dan, and Denny of course). I took B3's SMART system; I just didn't realize it until someone pointed that fact out. I call it reverse engineering.

Cheers,
Peter 'the intern' Roman
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1793
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 02:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm no engineer or designer. I happily steal ideas and technologies that have proved successful elsewhere and by others.
 

J. Steinhauer
Intermediate Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 369
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The idea is only stolen, if you claim it as your own.
 

Justin Alexander
New Member
Username: Bearpaw

Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill,
Your style would make you a great engineer. "Borrowing" ideas and improving upon them is the basis of all engineering. No need to reinvent the wheel. Only artsy people think that's "cool." Why spend 5 hours trying to figure something out someone else has already solved?
 

Ben Schy
Junior Member
Username: Bens

Post Number: 91
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 03:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Besides using this forum as a sounding board for ideas, there are a great many websites out there that brewers have put up describing (sometimes in GREAT detail) their DIY wares. It seems to me that most homebrewers are big-time tinkerers and DIY'rs, and lucky for me, a lot of them are web-savvy enough to be able to spread their knowledge around.

I love this hobby [obsession]!
 

Wm John Ivey
Intermediate Member
Username: Fat_elvis

Post Number: 278
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To get back to subject at hand it looks like since I will be going from batch sparging to Fly, I currrently have a single braided hose in my MT, can I built a hose manifold or do I need something to withstand the suction of the pump
JOhn
 

Busted Still Brewery
Advanced Member
Username: Brewlabs

Post Number: 612
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just switched to the silicone tubing from B3, I love it! it doesn't stay bent if you curl it up during storage
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 1365
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 08:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The brass QD's work OK for about 2 years and then start to leak like crazy. Went that route and have now replaced them all with poly sulfone. Although the brass ones were less $ to begin with I ended up having to trash them and spend even more $.

Anybody want a bag of leaky brass QD's?
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 4071
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John, you are crossing over to the dark side...may the schwarz be with you!
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Wm John Ivey
Intermediate Member
Username: Fat_elvis

Post Number: 279
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, the more I look at this thing, relearning how sparge, and the cost of all the extra equipment, I just might stay with the infamous Denny-Brew and use the pump so I'll keep back from blowing up again. :-)
John
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 4073
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 10:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John, I've gotta admit that personally I just can't see why brewing needs to be more complex than the way I do it. Maybe if I was brewing biger batches all the time or was gadget obssessed I'd feel differently, but 5 gal. batches are what I like to brew and I get more than enough gadgets at my studio.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Walt Fischer
Senior Member
Username: Walt

Post Number: 1980
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, i brewed up a 10 gallon batch of smoked porter just before xmas :-)

10 gallons?! Say it isnt so Walt!!

Yup, its true! actually i only had enough grains that i had smoked, to brew 10 gallons...

So i whipped out my old converted keg MLT, dusted it off, and brewed away!

Reminded me of the good ole days.... plus i was done hours earlier then when i break out the Lama n brew up 40 gallons!

Simple is sweet, huh Denny? :-)

Walt
Lama Brewery
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 4075
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Simple is sweet, huh Denny? "....TRUE! I did a 5 gal. batch of porter last Sun.....3 1/2 hours from the time I started heating water until the cleanup was done! Gotta love it!
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Michael
Advanced Member
Username: Hoppop

Post Number: 592
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 02:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny knows. 20 gallons brewed over the past couple of weeks. Four hours average....and, these were 10 gallon batches...KISS...once someone convinces me (and BJCP judges at the NHC) that automation makes a whole lot of difference, I am sticking to my story...
 

don price
Advanced Member
Username: Donzoid

Post Number: 527
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 02:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Six weeks in the laboratory can save you an afternoon in the library.
...some big wig at Dow Chemical many years ago.