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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2005 * Archive through April 04, 2005 * Krausen - the priming type < Previous Next >

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Geoff Buschur
Advanced Member
Username: Avmech

Post Number: 685
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 01:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I made a batch of an Amber based on a recipe that Bill posted (Rail Ale). This is the second time that I have used this grain bill, but I have used different yeast and hop schedules.

The first time I used WLP008 and this time I am using CL-50. What an amazing difference in color! The WLP008 was much darker (on the dark end of the scale) and now the CL-50 is almost too light. To remedy this I am thinking about krausening this batch with Malta Goya.

What is the formula for figuring how much wort to add to prime 5 gallons of beer?
 

Brandon Dachel
Senior Member
Username: Brandon

Post Number: 1456
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 02:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you trying to say that yeast has a color contribution?

A much more likely cause is that the yeast dropped out of suspension yet.
 

J. Steinhauer
Advanced Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 664
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 04:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The amount depends on fermentation temperature and desire carbonation level. Kraeusening is too complicated anyway. Why not just use fresh yeast and fresh wort? It's easier to control.
 

tim roth
Member
Username: Hopdude

Post Number: 208
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 04:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know nothin' about this thread.
I'm just worried about Steinhauer's name on the last 9 of 10 posts.
Is the lack of warm weather getting to you bud? Not that I would blame you a bit.......
Cheers, tim
 

J. Steinhauer
Advanced Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 666
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 04:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No man!

It's just been a busy week, and I haven't been here for a while, so everything is new.

Cold weather, what are you talking about? It's been in the 40's, near 50 all week.
 

tim roth
Member
Username: Hopdude

Post Number: 209
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 05:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Glad to hear it.

50's-60's here. Cool but, sunny and dry.
Great brewing weather! I bottled a batch today and brewed a batch afterwards.
Then enjoyed some "kickin' back" on the porch. Cheers, tim
 

Kevin Davis
Intermediate Member
Username: Ktdavis98

Post Number: 275
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will have to agree with Geoff. I have put the same wort on a different yeast in a small clear vial, and there can be a color difference in the final beer.

Geoff, How did you like the Rail Ale?
Kevin

(Message edited by ktdavis98 on April 02, 2005)
 

David Lewinnek
Junior Member
Username: Davelew

Post Number: 64
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To figure out how much to krausen, I use

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html

to get how much DME to add, then use promash or another calculator to find out how much DME it would take to make a certain specific gfravity of wort.

The last time I krausened, I think it took 36 fluid ounces of 1.050 wort to lightly carbonate 5 gallons of porter.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 4422
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Technically, isn't what you're talking about called priming with gyle?
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Geoff Buschur
Advanced Member
Username: Avmech

Post Number: 687
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here is a shot of the two beers side by side (1.21MB) http://home.mindspring.com/~webtunnel/DSC00905.JPG Same grain bill two different yeasts.
 

Geoff Buschur
Advanced Member
Username: Avmech

Post Number: 688
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 11:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, you might be right since I wouldn't be priming with the wort that made the beer.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 4425
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I believe krausening refers to adding actively fermenting wort to a batch during the batch's fermentaion. Priming with wort is usually called priming with gyle, not krausening....I think.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Geoff Buschur
Advanced Member
Username: Avmech

Post Number: 689
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Krausen (kroy-zen) - Used to refer to the foamy head that builds on top of the beer during fermentation. Also an advanced method of priming.

http://www.howtobrew.com/glossary.html

IIRC Charlie goes in to some detail about saving wort to use for priming and he called it krausening.
 

Dave Witt
Advanced Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 712
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 01:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny is right. IIRC, kraeusening is adding high kraeusen fermenting beer (5-15%, Noonan) to a nearly finished batch. Its done by the big breweries to speed maturation and also for carbonation. I did it to 2 batches of lager last year. Just a qt per carboy added a day or two after racking to secondary. Did not intend it to carbonate though, just help finish fermentation. It can also help get rid of diacetyl. Charlie P. says that adding saved, unfermented wort, or gyle to the finished beer to prime is also called kraeusening.

(Message edited by DaveW on April 04, 2005)
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 2968
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 01:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I dunno about the rest of y'all, but that image of Geoff's is mindblowing! Same wort, different yeasts gives THAT big of a color difference? I never would have believed it.

Here's a suggestion: how about tasting them, and then blending some proportions together to create a blended ale? You might hit on something very tasty.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2082
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 07:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with Chumley the difference looks big. Provided the cell density in the liquid is not in play (high cell density will make the beer look lighter due to the shorter path of light reflection) - isn't the more likely explanation some inconsistency in the ingredients, measurements or something like that? or mislabeling of malts?

It isn't the first time I've heard of colour problems beeing due to mislabeled grains? Was the grains from the same lot as in the other brew?

I haven't heard of any mechanism for this colour reduction before, I could certainly buy *some* difference, cider and wine makers has reported that the strain does make a slight difference in colour in wines, but this difference looks too big for beeing likely due to the strain? I suppose you could imagine the yeast absorbing the colour pigments for some reason. But I'd expect any slight colour differences to be measurable but not striking??

/Fredrik
 

David Lewinnek
Junior Member
Username: Davelew

Post Number: 65
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has anyone else noticed the difference in the trub in the two pictures? It looks like the lighter fermenter is 50% trub!

Could there have been some issue with mashing or grinding that caused this? This is wild speculation, but if you used grain from the bottom of the bag that was already ground into dust by the action of carrying the bag around, that might form doughballs in the mash. The inside of the doughballs might be dry, so you would get really poor mash efficiency, explaining the color difference. At the same time, some of the grain dust might get into the boil, and then settle out as trub in the fermenter.

Like I said, this is wild speculation and probably not correct, but I wanted to throw the idea out there.
 

Geoff Buschur
Advanced Member
Username: Avmech

Post Number: 690
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This was the first time I could really look at the picture on a good monitor; my computer at home has a really dark picture. The two samples aren't as far off as they appear. The sample on the right has some yeast in suspension and the sample on the left is crystal clear. The sample on the left is darker but not as dark as it appears on the picture.

The ingredients were all measured by LHBS owner who is very meticulous about measurements. The crystal 40 and 120 were placed in separate bags and neither looked out of proportion.

At first I felt the color was a little light so I figured priming the beer with darker wort would be a good solution that would be measurable and reproducible. Now the color has grown on me and I think I will just leave it as is.

Thanks for all of the input.