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John Jacox
Member
Username: Johnj
Post Number: 168
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.124.201.0
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 04:53 am: | 
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The History Channel had an episode of Modern Marvels that dealt with brewing today. It's on again at 2:00am Eastern time. It was really interesting and dealt with all kinds of issues from ancient brewing to the big boys at Anheiser Busch. It had interviews with several microbrewers (Sam Adams, Dogfish Head, and others), and discussed homebrewing (even showed a meeting going on at the Maltose Falcons club). Worth TIVOing if you get a chance. |
Randy McCord
Advanced Member
Username: Mccord
Post Number: 535
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 216.174.177.174
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 05:20 am: |
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I watched it. Not bad. I was impressed when they said there were only 60 or so commercial breweries in the U.S. in 1983, and now there are over 1400. Good beer seems to be getting established well. |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 4274
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
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Nineteen eighty-three was the low point of American brewery consolidation. In terms of brewery numbers there indeed has been a craft beer revolution since then, even if the total share of US beer sales is only just about four percent (and much less in some regions such as the South). |
Paul Edwards
Advanced Member
Username: Pedwards
Post Number: 891
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.236.16.140
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 01:11 pm: |
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I think a friend of mine, Dave Chichura, was in that episode. He started HB'ing here and was a member of our club. Dave used to brew at Rock Bottom here in Indianapolis, then moved on. He brewed some award winning beers at Mountain Sun in Boulder.
He's since moved on again, to Oskar Blues Brewery and Restaurant. They're one of the few, maybe only, brewpubs that packages their beer in cans. |
Chris Vejnovich
Intermediate Member
Username: Cjv85vmax
Post Number: 361
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 71.28.135.57
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 03:16 pm: |
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I liked this show a lot. I am really glad that they spent a good amount of the show talking about micro brewing and craft brewing. And the homebrew section was pretty cool as well. They did spend too much time with the Sam Adams owner, Jim what ever his name is!! I like his great
attitude, but he is a little whacky!! |
Kevin Davis
Intermediate Member
Username: Ktdavis98
Post Number: 344
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 64.136.26.235
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 03:29 pm: |
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Has anyone seen when / if it will air again? |
Paul Edwards
Advanced Member
Username: Pedwards
Post Number: 892
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.236.7.221
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 04:02 pm: |
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According to the History Channel website, The Modern Marvels episode on Brewing will air Saturday, January 14th, at 7 pm Eastern Time.
Set your TiVo.
(Message edited by pedwards on January 02, 2006) |
Kevin Davis
Intermediate Member
Username: Ktdavis98
Post Number: 345
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 64.136.26.235
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 04:19 pm: |
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So the episode is just named Brewing? Thanks Paul.
Kevin. |
Ken Anderson
Senior Member
Username: Ken75
Post Number: 1293
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 69.168.141.10
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 04:53 pm: |
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A couple things stuck in my head.
One is the AB brewer saying they glycol control their fermentations to within +/- .2 degrees. Farenheit or Celsius, that's tight! Now, I wonder, do they need that control, or does the cooling equipment just happen to be that good?
The other thing is AB ferments for 5 to 7 days, then transfers to another vessel for 21 days where it conditions under pressure. Now, do they mean the pressure develops from the finishing fermentation? It would make sense to use that natural CO2, I think. Also, in this process, where is the lagering? Anybody catch the details?
Overall, I thought it was a really good program. And if the home brewing population agrees, that's pretty good kudos to the producers.
Ken |
Richard Nye
Senior Member
Username: Yeasty_boy
Post Number: 1166
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 68.225.248.227
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 05:08 pm: |
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Ken, I'm sure AB controls their process very VERY tightly. They want to minimize every potential variable so the end product is consistent beyond belief. Most swill drinkers probably couldn't tell the difference in slight variations. AB also needs to make sure beers produced in different brewery locations are identical.
I'm sure AB doesn't lager their beer past the primary fermenatation and 21 day conditioning. That would cost too much to store all that beer. I'm sure they've honed the recipe to maximize profits over the years. |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 4280
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 05:54 pm: |
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Yes, A-B is extremely concerned about consistency. Samples from the various breweries are air expressed to St. Louis daily and checked against each other.
I wouldn't say the recipes or process is optimized for profitability. It's more that fermentation is tailored to fit the properties of the yeast. A-B is fond of pointing out that the beechwood aging is somewhat labor and process-intensive and not inexpensive. The fermentation and lagering schedule does encourage flocculation and clarity. Whether it truly improves the beer is a matter of opinion. I doubt that increasing the aging time of this relatively low gravity lager would have much effect, anyway.
(Message edited by BillPierce on January 02, 2006) |
Tim Wi
Intermediate Member
Username: Riverkeeper
Post Number: 361
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 65.7.82.183
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 06:10 pm: |
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I watched that episode last night.
They did a good job with it.
T |
Scott Manning
Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 141
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 12.18.36.40
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 08:14 pm: |
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It was a good episode - all i could do was think about was how huge the fermenters were at AB and their capacity. Utterly amazing. Granted i am not a fan - it was still damn impressive. Although the modern marvels brewing episode was good - I like the one about distileries that aired before it better. Very interesting stuff. I had no idea Anchor made their own spirits. Has anyone ever tried their rye wiskey old protrero? |
Ken Anderson
Senior Member
Username: Ken75
Post Number: 1294
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 69.168.141.10
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 09:31 pm: |
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Jim Koch didn't bad-mouth AB in the least. He complimented them both for the quality they achieve, as well as on their ability to make a "light" beer (as he called it) with such consistency.
That was pretty classy on his part.
Ken |
Beertracker
Advanced Member
Username: Beertracker
Post Number: 985
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 207.155.33.64
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 02:03 am: |
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I think Jim Koch did a great job representing the entire beer community while getting some publicity for Sammy. I've had the opportunity to meet the guy and IMO he seems to be a genuine beer geek at heart. It was a good episode and hopefully it'll open some more eyes to a new world of beer. 
CHEERS! Beertracker
"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers
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Chris Vejnovich
Intermediate Member
Username: Cjv85vmax
Post Number: 362
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 71.28.135.101
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 02:34 am: |
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Did I miss something in this thread? Who said that Jim Koch bad mouthed AB??? I am the only one who had anything remotely bad to say about him and that was just that he seems a little whacky. |
Ken Anderson
Senior Member
Username: Ken75
Post Number: 1295
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 69.168.141.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 04:37 am: |
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No Chris, that was just me saying that Koch never so much as intimated that AB produces anything but a first rate product. I mean he COULD have. We do here, all the time, and in no uncertain terms!
He gave AB the respect they deserve, and I thought that was pretty cool.
Ken
(Message edited by ken75 on January 03, 2006) |
Graham Cox
Intermediate Member
Username: T2driver
Post Number: 341
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.248.92
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 07:09 am: |
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Purina makes very consistent dog food, too, but that fact was lost on my late dog. Macro comes at a price. |
Richard Nye
Senior Member
Username: Yeasty_boy
Post Number: 1170
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 68.225.248.227
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 02:03 pm: |
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There's probably no brewer more consistent than A-B. Their recipes just suck. |
Chris Vejnovich
Intermediate Member
Username: Cjv85vmax
Post Number: 364
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 216.96.61.191
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 02:35 pm: |
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Oh, I see what you are saying Ken. I agree that AB produces a very consistent product and does a good job of it too. Even if I don't care for the taste of what they produce. I wish they would produce a special release higer gravity and fuller body, ie 100% 2-row barley malt beer, because I bet that it would be just as good as the top quality German/Czech pilsners that are imported to the states. Maybe in the future. |
Tim W
Member
Username: Timw
Post Number: 201
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 56.0.143.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 03:37 pm: |
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I enjoyed the episode too. The head brewer at A-B said they start their mash at 120 F and slowly raise it. Did anyone else catch that? If that is true why are we not doing that? I thought with today's well modified malts this was a waste of time and effort. |
Mark Zgarrick
Member
Username: Maz
Post Number: 176
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.213.192.3
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 03:48 pm: |
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Tim, they did indeed say that. On our homebrewing scale (and also based on most of our equipment), I'm assuming that kind of step mashing just isn't necessary. But with their volumes and grain bills (they use rice as well), I'm assuming they are maximizing their extraction, as well as other things I'm not aware of that contribute to the consistency and stability of their final product. |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 4291
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 04:17 pm: |
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I'm pleasantly surprised they didn't edit out that kind of detail (mash schedule temperature) that would appeal only to hardcore beer geeks and brewers such as ourselves. It's also the first time I've heard A-B reveal this. I, too, suspect that it improves efficiency slightly, which is indeed a priority for the largest brewers who use malt in huge quantities.
On another level, there is a good deal of information on mash schedules of the Trappist brewers in Brew Like a Monk. Many of them also use step mashing, some of them quite complex. I'm less sure of the need for this as I am of the almost religious respect they maintain for tradition. Surely malts have changed considerably since most of these recipes were created. But it probably is one factor (along with the use of sugars) in the high attenuation of these beers.
(Message edited by BillPierce on January 03, 2006) |
scott jackson
Member
Username: Kroc
Post Number: 202
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 67.135.167.194
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 04:30 pm: |
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I start most of my mashes at 130 then raise it to sach temperature. I used to always do this, then stopped for a while and I noticed by beers were not as good. I think it improves clarity and extraction. |
ScottDeW
Intermediate Member
Username: Scott
Post Number: 419
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 63.174.45.1
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 04:52 pm: |
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I had some of Budweiser's Brewmaster Reserve over the holidays. It was great. Sort of in the tradition of a Maibock.
They can make good beer. I don't blame Bud, they fill a demand. Too bad the masses demand such uninspiring beer.
Scott
http://texanbrew.com
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Tim Wi
Intermediate Member
Username: Riverkeeper
Post Number: 364
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 170.141.68.99
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 05:13 pm: |
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The head brewer at A-B said they start their mash at 120 F and slowly raise it.
Bud lite is not known for its body.
T |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 4293
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 05:21 pm: |
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I'm guilty of serious thread jacking here, but I will continue the discussion about step mashing. I, too, usually step mash, mashing in at 134-135 F and then raising to the saccharification temperature after briefly checking the mash pH and adjusting it if necessary. I also do a mashout. Why do I do this? Well, mostly because I can and my system allows it and it has become my habit. Does it improve the beer? That's a much more difficult question. It may promote clarity, as beers that others report various hazes seem to be quite clear for me. But the effect on flavor is far more subjective and nebulous.
My reading of Brew Like a Monk has provoked several questions in my mind about the similarities and differences among various beers and breweries. Several of the Trappist breweries use the same yeast strain, for example, to produce rather different beers. Yet there are also many similarities among these offerings even when the ingredients (yeast, malts, sugars, water) and techniques (mash and fermentation schedules and temperatures, brewhouse and fermenter considerations) differ.
My general conclusion is that the very best brewers understand how to tweak recipes and processes to produce desired (and occasionally serendipitous) results. I am told, for example, that the Celis beer produced in Michigan today is just about identical to what was once brewed in Austin. Now the equipment is the same (all purchased from Celis after Miller closed it), but certainly the water and probably the malt are somewhat different. I understand that Pierre Celis spent a few weeks in Michigan tweaking the recipe (and probably the technique) to accomplish this.
This is an area where there could be a lot more study, and I suspect it is one where homebrewers fall short. Consistency is not in the nature of many of us and it may well lie mostly beyond our abilities.
(Message edited by BillPierce on January 03, 2006) |
Chris Vejnovich
Intermediate Member
Username: Cjv85vmax
Post Number: 366
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 71.28.144.68
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 05:25 pm: |
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Scott jackson,
I recently brewed up a Pils with a friend and we did a 130 rest for about 30 min, and then 155 for 30 min. The resulting beer is fantastic and cleared to sparkiling clarity with in about 2 weeks in the keg. I used Weyermann's Pils. The SNR or S/T is rated at 40. Noonan's book reccommends a 130 rest for grains with an SNR under 44 I believe. I am sold and will always do a 130 rest when using Weyermann's pils from now on. |
Beertracker
Advanced Member
Username: Beertracker
Post Number: 987
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 207.155.33.64
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 06:16 pm: |
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quote:My general conclusion is that the very best brewers understand how to tweak recipes and processes to produce desired (and occasionally serendipitous) results. I am told, for example, that the Celis beer produced in Michigan today is just about identical to what was once brewed in Austin. Now the equipment is the same (all purchased from Celis after Miller closed it), but certainly the water and probably the malt are somewhat different. I understand that Pierre Celis spent a few weeks in Michigan tweaking the recipe (and probably the technique) to accomplish this.
Having toured both facilities (Celis in Austin before its untimely demise & MBC in Weberville), I could seriously argue this point! However, it's true that Pierre Celis & his top Brewmaster from Austin contracted their expertise to Michigan Brewing Company while the brands were being launched. This may have been as much a marketing ploy (in regards to Pierre) as anything else, since MBC had already purchased the recipe rights from SAB Miller. I know MBC has to treat their water with slaked lime for the Celis beers and that due to time & space conflicts with their own brands & facility that the Celis beers are packaged much sooner than they were in Austin without the use of natural conditioning in bright tanks. IMO the Michigan made Celis beers seem fizzy & lighter without as much finesse, especially the Grand Cru. I'd still drink any of them if they were handed to me, but they're certainly not the iconic brews of the past. Unfortunately, the Celis beers may never make national or even regional distribution again unless Michigan Brewing Company can afford another expansion, but I think they're already leveraged to the hilt. I guess they could work out a deal with SAB Miller, but we all know what happens when you, "sell your soul to the devil". Just some "long winded" ramblings of a true Pierre Celis fan!
FYI...The saddest part about my Michigan experience was seeing one of those beautifully polished, old world copper kettles from Austin sitting in the parking lot getting getting covered with diesel fuel soot (the brewery literally sits in a truck stop parking lot) and bird crap! 
CHEERS! Beertracker
"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers
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Brews and Views Archive 2006 
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