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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2006 * Archive through January 20, 2006 * Real ale fermented in oak? < Previous Next >

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Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5365
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 02:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A poster on another forum is insisting that "real ale" (in the CAMRA sense) cannot be fermented in "nasty plastic" and he as a homebrewer does what all "real ale" breweries do and ferments ion oak barrels. Now, I've heard of aging in oak, but fermenting in it seems kinda weird to me. So, my question to all of you is, has anyone ever fermented in oak on a regular basis? How did you sanitize it? He says he sanitizes it by letting it stand full of water for a day. Does anyone know of any breweries who ferment "real ale" in oak? In case you want to see what he has to say, it's http://tastybrew.com/forum/thread/51947 .
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Ned Buntline
Junior Member
Username: Ned_buntline

Post Number: 26
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 141.150.200.123
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 03:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've not heard of breweies fermenting in oak, except perhaps oak vats lined with stainless or copper. Maybe pre-1800, but nothing recent. Even IPA brewers in the 1800s fermented in traditional lined vats and racked their beer to barrels after the fact. That said, a healthy secondary fermentation took place in the barrels, as beer (according to CAMRA's IPA book) were typically racked into the barrel while the wort was still up around 1030 or so. But by then, most of the sugars are gone, and a robust alcohol and hop character deterred any problem beasts.
 

brett matthews
Junior Member
Username: Brettj

Post Number: 41
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 220.235.88.212
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 06:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, Marston's in the UK still use the Burton Union system to brew at least one of their ales. Most other breweries I have seen still use the original wooden ferment vessels but have had them lined with plastic or stainless steel. I know that up until the 1970's down here in Australia, Carlton and United Breweries still fermented stout in oak vessels. Some beers from Belgium (sour reds) are still fermented in oak
 

Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Advanced Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 936
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 217.44.52.121
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That guy sounds like hhe doesn't know what the feck he is on about. Real ale only fermented in oak, what rubbish.
 

Joakim Ruud
Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 128
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.98.134
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To the extent that beer has been fermented or lagered in oak, the wood has always been lined with tar so that the beer doesn't come into contact with the wood.

On my recent tour of the Urquell brewery, we were shown that they employed a team of coopers full time, who would strip the wood and apply new tar for every single time a vat or barrel was used.

Bottom line: Beer shouldn't taste of wood. It is a very recent (American?) fad :-) Any material which does not impart any flavour to the beer, works fine. Including, but not limited to, glass, plastic and stainless steel :-)

Joakim
 

Paul Edwards
Advanced Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 904
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.236.2.33
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a friend who ferments in an oak cask, then transfer the beer to a wooden pin for conditioning and serving. Both vessels came from England.

He's been using the same oak casks for many, many years. He cleans them out with a NaOH solution.

His beers don't have any "wooden" character to them. He's been brewing over 25 years, and he's used the same fermenting and serving vessels for as long as I've known him , which is 16 or 17 years.
 

Paul Erbe
Intermediate Member
Username: Perbe

Post Number: 393
Registered: 05-2001
Posted From: 12.27.22.67
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey now,

I had to start as Scott would. Traquiar House in Scotland brews in oak fermentation tanks. I am not sure if CAMRA would consider there ales "real."

C'ya

Paul
http://www.traquair.co.uk/beer.html
 

Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Advanced Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 939
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 217.44.52.121
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Russian oak right? Gives Trquair House beer that lovely caramel flavour.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 3881
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.227.171.151
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lets get it right, Beerboy - its "Extinct" Russian oak.
 

Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Advanced Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 940
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 217.44.52.121
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, minor, but very important detail! The extinction definately adds depth to the caramel flavour.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 2372
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.215.203.195
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Who said anything about caramel?

Dan

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Mike
Member
Username: Macker

Post Number: 204
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 167.88.201.100
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It also needs to be brewed by a busboy/dishwasher.....
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1720
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 194.39.131.39
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 05:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"It also needs to be brewed by a busboy/dishwasher....."

That nobody at the brewery remembers or knows of ever actually being there even as a guest
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 2373
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.215.203.195
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike, good to see you back, where have you been?

Dan

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Mike
Member
Username: Macker

Post Number: 205
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 167.88.201.100
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 08:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan

It is good to be back. I have been looking at retail sites in Covington, Kentucky.

Mike
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 4468
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike, I assume sites for a retail homebrewing business.
 

Paul Erbe
Intermediate Member
Username: Perbe

Post Number: 397
Registered: 05-2001
Posted From: 12.27.22.67
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oak vat
 

Mike
Member
Username: Macker

Post Number: 206
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 167.88.201.100
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 08:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, I cannot divulge anymore....but trust me, it is BIG BIG BIG!
 

Scott Manning
Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet

Post Number: 171
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 12.18.36.40
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The jolly pumpkin brewery in dexter michigan uses oak - not sure if he ferments in it though. also dragon mead in michigan uses oak too.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 2374
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.215.203.195
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike, please let me know if I can help you! LOL! I might be able to add your name to the list!

Dan

P.S. Any progress on those brewboards?

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