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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2006 * Archive through February 15, 2006 * High gravity beers < Previous Next >

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George
Junior Member
Username: Ggenovez

Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 151.193.220.29
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all,

I found a recipe for imperial stout. not much details in the way of mashing and sparging. It uses a total of 19 lbs of grain and a OG of 1.086.

My question is while sparging, will I need to go to something like 10 gallons and boil it down to 5.5 or can I use a no sparge technique and use the second runnings for a porter or something?

If I can use the no sparge, what is the formula to use for the correct grain absorption, and final wort?

Thanks

George
 

Rob Schlank
New Member
Username: Speyedr

Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 68.32.1.142
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 03:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is the grain bill, and what are your system specifics?
 

George
Junior Member
Username: Ggenovez

Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 24.0.68.122
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 04:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Rob,

Here is the link
http://www.stoutbillys.com/stout/recipens/(Flat)/72D15D03.htm

And the grain bill

15 lbs. English Pale 2-Row malted barley
2 lbs. English Crystal Malt
1 lb. Roasted Barley
1/2 lb. Black Patent Malt
1/2 lb. Chocolate Malt
4 oz. Cascade hops (6.5 AAU) (bittering/full boil)
2 oz Tettnanger hops (3.4 AAU) (flavor/20 minute)
2 oz Tettnanger hops (3.4 AAU) (aroma/1 minute)
1 tsp. Irish Moss (@30 minute mark)
Wyeast London Ale (#1028) liquid yeast, pitch with at least a one pint starte
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 2395
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.29.220.144
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 04:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That is only 22.6 ppppg - rather poor extraction.

If it were me, I would sparge until I got 1.010 as usual, and boil to 1.086 gravity. My small system would give 1.106 gravity for five gallons so I could get by with 15.5 pounds of grain for 1.086 gravity.

As an aside, that strikes me as a bit much roasted barley for an imperial stout. I would fear it might taste a bit Irish at that level.

Dan

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George
Junior Member
Username: Ggenovez

Post Number: 54
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 24.0.68.122
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 05:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Dan,

Best guess at how many gallons of spargin it will take to Batch sparge until I do get to 1.010?

George
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 2396
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.215.203.195
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't batch sparge, but it seems to me it would take a lot to get to 1.010. If you are going to batch sparge, you will need to pad your grain bill a bit.

Dan

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George
Junior Member
Username: Ggenovez

Post Number: 55
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 151.193.220.27
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok? what do you mean by pad the grain?
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 2398
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.215.203.195
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, sorry, I meant that for batch sparging you will need a bit more grain than you will for fly sparging. With fly sparging the water held back in the grain contains the gravity of the final runnings or less - usually 1.010 or so. At 1/8 gallon per pound, this is 1.25 gravity points per pound.

With batch sparging the same amount of liquid is held back and the gravity of the liquid is exactly the same as the final runnings, but, unless many spargings are performed ( might as well fly sparge), the gravity is much higher, say 1.025. This translates into about 3.1 gravity points per pound. In a ten pound batch this is about a pound of grain difference. Not much, but it could be the difference six points of starting gravity for a given recipe.

Please note that I have never intentionally batch sparged a full size batch, so what do I know?

Dan

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Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2002
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.38
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In theory what Dan says makes sense, but I batch sparge, and used to fly sparge, and my efficiency is the same with a single sparge, albeit I start with a 15 gal boil... Go figure.

I like the first runnings route for an imperial stout, with say an american brown with the second runnings. Just use a lower efficieny rating in your calcultor (promash/recipator). You can add honey if you undershoot, but you shouldn't have any trouble getting 1.086 in a 5gal batch with 19# of grain!?
 

George
Junior Member
Username: Ggenovez

Post Number: 56
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 151.193.220.29
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Hophead,

what should the quarts / pounds ratio be to get 7 gal of first running? what's the formula? and how many gallons for the second running?

Would the first running be a no sparge or batch sparge?

Thanks

George
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2004
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.38
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First runnings is no sparge, so if you want 7 gal, then add 7gal plus whatever you use for 'grain absorption'... So use whatever qts/# you like for the sacc rest, then add the rest for 'mashout' to raise temp, and recirc and drain away...

Second runnings, you do a batch sparge with the remaining sugars in the mash...

DC has a nice article here if you like equations and such...

http://tastybrew.com/articles/dennyconn001

(Message edited by hophead on February 02, 2006)
 

George
Junior Member
Username: Ggenovez

Post Number: 58
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 151.193.220.29
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok.

So just to check my numbers, I want 7 gallons to boil down to 5.5

19# of grain at .5 qarts/pound is 2.375 + 7 gallons is 9.375.

that makes 37.4 qarts divided by 19 pounds of grain is 1.97 qt/#

Does that sound right?

The next batch will require 7 gallons of water to extract the second runnings. Correct?

Should the secondairy water be a 170'?

I'm guessing it will require stiring?

Anything else is required?

Sorry, my first primary/secondairy/ batch sparging.

Thanks

George
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2009
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.38
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So many numbers, my head hurts.

Pretty much, go with 9.5-10gal total, but mash with your normal amount, then add the rest to mashout. It's better to overshoot a little and leave a little extra for the second runnings if needed, than to undershoot and not have enough first runnings...

Yes, secondary water (7 gal) should be 170-175 (grain will lower it some). Restir and recirculate. You could add some honey to the boil if it's OG isn't as high as you wanted it.. (sometimes I add some grain to the second running mash with 155F water).
 

George
Junior Member
Username: Ggenovez

Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 151.193.220.29
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excellent.

What about calcium? my water is terrible so I use reverse osmosis.

Will I need to add calcium to the whole 17 gal or just the initial mash amount?

Thanks

George