| Author |
Message |
    
Steve Pierson
Intermediate Member
Username: Stevepierson
Post Number: 280
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 65.101.79.228
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 08:08 pm: | 
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I want to brew another alt - will have a US56 yeast cake available tomorrow. Already have one alt conditioning - 1/3 Pils, 1/3 Vienna, 1/3 Munich.
Have some Weyermann Munich, CaraRed, CaraHell and Caramunich malts. Will go to the LHBS to purchase whatever else I need.
Considering this grain bill - an altered version of Dornbusch's Sticke recipe from Zymurgy - I reduced the amount of Munich and CaraRed:
8 lbs. Pils
2 lbs. Munich
2 lbs. Carared
8-10 oz. wheat malt
2 oz. roasted barley for color
OG about 1.055
Mt. Hood plug hops for 50 IBU's
Suggestions/comments appreciated. TIA.
None of us knows more than all of us. - Bill Herzog
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Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 4663
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 08:12 pm: |
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I might use debittered black malt (Carafa Type III) for color. |
Bob Girolamo
Member
Username: Brewerbob
Post Number: 143
Registered: 06-2002
Posted From: 71.131.95.99
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 01:58 am: |
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Northern German Altbier
A ProMash Recipe Report
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.19
Anticipated OG: 1.056 Plato: 13.72
Anticipated SRM: 11.0
Anticipated IBU: 37.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Formulas Used
-------------
Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.
Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30
Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 8 %
Additional Utilization Used For First Wort Hops: -10 %
Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
68.7 7.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
29.4 3.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
1.8 0.19 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.029 350
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.
Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Perle Pellet 8.25 28.7 First WH
0.50 oz. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.40 8.5 90 min.
Yeast
-----
White Labs WLP011 European Ale
Denny declared me the Alt man after he tasted this one.
Ask not what your country can brew for you but, what you can brew for your country!
http://www.geocities.com/bob_girolamo
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Astro
Member
Username: Astro
Post Number: 152
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 68.225.57.63
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 03:58 am: |
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FWIW, here's the first and only Alt I've brewed:
12# Munich Malt Germany
a touch of black patent for color
.5 oz Spalter (4.7%) FWH
3.5 oz Spalter (4.7%) 60 mins
WY 1007
OG 1.056, FG 1.011, calc IBU 50, SRM 11
I quite enjoyed it, although I don't have much experience in Alts. My German buddy said the taste was authentic, although he recalled Alts being a little darker in color. |
Pete Mazurowski
Member
Username: Pete_maz
Post Number: 239
Registered: 07-2003
Posted From: 70.144.78.108
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 02:09 pm: |
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Steve, you & I are apparently on the same wavelength. I brewed a 1/3 Pils, 1/3 Vienna, 1/3 Munich, all Mt Hood Alt at the beginning of December, and it's REALLY starting to hit its stride now. It flat out kicks butt.
Now I'm planning another to compare, and will likely go with a recipe similar to Bob's above. Mostly Pils with a few lbs dark Munich, and Mt Hood all around. Possibly some wheat, too. Hadn't thought about using carared. I have some of that, but I'm saving it for an APA or IPA.
If I recall correctly, Chumley did a few alts last year, and found that he liked the "1/3 of each" recipe the best. |
Bill Walton
Junior Member
Username: Vladie
Post Number: 80
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 68.47.204.132
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 03:47 pm: |
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Last fall I brewed 90% Vienna, 9% Munich 1% Roasted Barley, all Spalt mid 50's IBU. It was incredible. It wasn't was malty as the Uerige Sticke I had on hand (what is), but the club liked it better than the Schwelmer Alt. It could have used some more malt and a little more color, but it was still a great looking and tasting beer. |
Steve Sampson
Member
Username: Sampsosm
Post Number: 171
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.61.233.207
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 05:14 pm: |
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I brewed a 50/50 pils/munich with carafa III for color, and I gotta say I'm not too impressed with it. Its lagered for two months now, and its really just not malty enough. I stayed away from the 100% munich route that I see others recommend, becauswe I thought it would be too overpowering, but I think next time I'll do 100% munich.
For this Alt I used the seasonal Dusseldorf Alt strain from white labs.
The 1/3 of each grain bill sounds interesting. Anyone thats brewed it, how would you describe it? |
Ned Buntline
Junior Member
Username: Ned_buntline
Post Number: 75
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 151.204.22.12
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 06:55 pm: |
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It's been a while since I brewed this, but I remember it as being tasty:
Michilimackinac Hessian Alt Ale
Batch Size (Gal): 6.00 Wort Size (Gal): 6.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.13
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.34
Anticipated SRM: 14.3
Anticipated IBU: 45.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Grain/Extract/Sugar
6.00 lbs. Maris Otter Pale Malt 1.038
1.50 lbs. Vienna Malt 1.035
1.50 lbs. Munich Malt 1.037
1.00 lbs. Crystal 60L 1.034
0.13 lbs. Black Patent Malt 1.028
Hops
1.40 oz. Perle Whole 8.00% 60 min.
0.60 oz. Perle Whole 8.00% 10 min.
1.00 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.00% 0 min.
WYeast 1007 German Ale
Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Single Step
Grain Lbs: 10.13
Water Qts: 13.00
Water Gal: 3.25
Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.28
Saccharification Rest Temp : 147 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 15
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 0 |
Corin Bone
New Member
Username: Eczematic
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 220.236.149.91
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 09:39 pm: |
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got one lagering now which is a 1/3 each pils/vienna/munich grist only with 3% carafa I as well - i love the mellow toasty-chocolateyness of carafa I. OG 1046. 40IBUs Perle + a teensy bit of Styrian for flavour and a teensy bit of Hallertau at flameout. fermented with 1007 at 13C (55F) - this yeast can really take the cold!
still lagering but looks as if it will be good if i can stop sneaking sips out of it. malty without being at a bocky level, with a balanced hint of burntness from the carafa - and plenty of hop flavour (i don't buy into this bittering hops only in an alt crap).
still it is difficult to tell exactly how it's going to be while i wait ages for the 1007 to drop out. |
Graham Cox
Intermediate Member
Username: T2driver
Post Number: 386
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.248.92
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 05:36 am: |
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I did this one recently and was very pleased. 2# was probably a bit heavy on the CaraRed, but it was a beautiful beer.
* * * * *
Dusseldorf Altbier
A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 11.00
Anticipated OG: 1.051 Plato: 12.53
Anticipated SRM: 13.9
Anticipated IBU: 45.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Extract SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
54.5 6.00 lbs. Vienna Malt Germany 1.028 3
18.2 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.009 8
18.2 2.00 lbs. CaraRed Malt Germany 1.009 20
4.5 0.50 lbs. Crystal 48L - Durst Germany 1.002 56
4.5 0.50 lbs. Crystal 83L - Durst Germany 1.002 80
Exract represented as SG.
Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.40 oz. Perle Whole 8.00 38.9 60 min.
0.70 oz. Mt. Hood Whole 4.30 6.3 20 min.
1.00 oz. Mt. Hood Whole 4.30 0.0 0 min.
Yeast
-----
WYeast 1007 German Ale |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 3920
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 65.102.123.53
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 04:52 pm: |
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I did one with two pounds of CaraRed that had a weird flavor that I did not really care for. But I am not sure whether the flavor came from the Spalt hops I was using. |
Beertracker
Senior Member
Username: Beertracker
Post Number: 1052
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 207.155.34.42
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 05:08 pm: |
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I used 12% Weyermann CaraRed® in my altbier recipes last year. No odd or strange flavors, but I think I'll cut-back some this year. 
CHEERS! Beertracker
"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers
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Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 5423
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 05:14 pm: |
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I brewed a batch of alt yesterday using Sinamr for coloring rather than dark malt. First time I've actually used it...pretty cool stuff.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Beertracker
Senior Member
Username: Beertracker
Post Number: 1053
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 207.155.34.42
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 05:41 pm: |
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I've got some, but I just can't bring myself to use it! 
CHEERS! Beertracker
"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers
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Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 5425
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 06:00 pm: |
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Hey, it's just cold steeping already done for you! For me, the biggest problem was figuring out how much to use. I finally just accepted that instead of calculating something, I'd be forced to do it the easy way and just add it and observe! I ended up adding 2 TBSP to a 5 gal. batch and it *seemed* about the same amount of color as the oz. of cvarafa II I usually use.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Beertracker
Senior Member
Username: Beertracker
Post Number: 1054
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 207.155.34.42
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 06:36 pm: |
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Thanx for the info. Denny! Now if I can find the nerve...at least I'll now how much to add.
CHEERS! Beertracker
"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers
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Steve Pierson
Intermediate Member
Username: Stevepierson
Post Number: 281
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 65.101.79.228
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 06:48 am: |
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Thanks, everyone, for your input. Spent the weekend tending the sick people at my house. Brewing next weekend, hopefully.
None of us knows more than all of us. - Bill Herzog
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Mark Hopps
New Member
Username: Mark_sa
Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 130.220.79.99
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 12:03 am: |
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Hi Corin
I've only ever made one alt and I've never been to Dusseldorf, so the only information I have is second hand, but everything I've read is that alt's basically only use bittering hop additions.
Can you please shed some light on your view that alts don't just use bittering additions.
Cheers
Mark |
Graham Cox
Intermediate Member
Username: T2driver
Post Number: 391
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.248.92
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 04:31 am: |
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You need to read more.
Here is but one beam of the light you requested:
http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category7.html#style7C |
Mark Hopps
New Member
Username: Mark_sa
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 130.220.79.98
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 06:59 am: |
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Thanks for the reply Graham, but I wouldn't say this clarifies the point.
I had already read the BJCP guidelines. For a standard Dusseldorf alt it says moderate to low hop flavour. From my experience, when using low alpha noble hops for bittering up to 50 IBUs, you're going to get a fair flavour impact, certainly within the moderate to low range. This doesn't indicate to me that the use of late hop additions are the way to go.
Only other significant point is in relation to a sticke which suggest dry hopping is common.
Does need to be noted that the BJCP guidelines are a secondary source, that amalgamates lots of other information. I would be keen from people who have first hand experience.
Cheers
Mark |
Graham Cox
Intermediate Member
Username: T2driver
Post Number: 392
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.248.92
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 07:12 am: |
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Well, Mark, I do have first-hand experience.
Major bittering hop additions, which by the general definition would be at or about 60 minutes remaining, may impart some flavor and exceedingly minor aroma, depending on the variety. More pungent varieties may vary in their impact, but generally speaking, there will not be a great deal of flavor or aroma impact from a "bittering" addition at or about 60 minutes remaining in the boil.
I'm sorry if this doesn't "clarify the point," but that is my experience, and it is generally accepted as fact. If you have evidence to the contrary, based on your first-hand experience, by all means share it with us. |
Corin Bone
New Member
Username: Eczematic
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 220.236.149.91
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 10:02 pm: |
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Mark, I've been to Duesseldorf and one of the alts there that really impressed me was Zum Schluessel, which had a big, perfumey, fresh hop nose. Other altstadt alts were less aromatically hoppy but most contained some noble hop flavour - certainly more hoppiness than the big brewery alts like Diebels etc.
Personally I like some hop flavour in my alts - I've made maybe 7 alts and prefer the ones I made with late additions. That said, it is swings and roundabouts: if you put 50IBUs of 3% AA hallertau in for bitterness you will definitely get some flavour. My current brew used a higher alpha hop for bitterness (Perle) so I had room to add some flavour in later. Likewise hop aroma may not be essential in an alt, but I like it.
Try a few different things, and make what you like! It's a fun style. I have no idea why alts seem to inspire such endless, dogmatic pedantry... The fun with making German beers at home is that you don't have to be German about it! |
Mark Hopps
New Member
Username: Mark_sa
Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 130.220.79.98
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 11:38 pm: |
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Thanks Corin. As I said I've never been to Dusseldorf so your experiences certainly are a helpful insight.
And I agree that using loads of low alpha nobles, even for bittering, will give you some flavour. The one alt that I have made so far, used only German Spalt added at 60 mins. I can't remember the exact quantity I used, but it was a fair whack, and it left a discernable flavour. For me it was a nice balance between the hop flavour, hop bitterness and malt flavour.
Cheers
Mark |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 5435
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 09:24 pm: |
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Personally, I always FWH my alts to get a big hop flavor in them. That's just how I like 'em!
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Brews and Views Archive 2006 
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