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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2006 * Archive through May 05, 2006 * Tettnanger IPA?? < Previous Next >

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Jim O'Conner
Advanced Member
Username: Roguejim

Post Number: 673
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 216.239.160.71
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 08:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was looking at a Redhook ESB clone recipe that uses Tett for the bittering hop, and Willamette for the flavor. So I figured one could simply boost the OG to 1.070 and IBUs to 70 to produce an IPA, but would it be drinkable?
Jim
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 5273
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.239.69
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tetts are the signature hop for some American amber ales, sometimes with Cascades for aroma. Finishing with Willamettes (an American version of Fuggles) would result in a more English-style IPA, but I certainly would be willing to try the combination. I'm sure others will have their own opinion.
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1893
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey now,

Just be aware that the American Tettnanger variety is actually a FUGGLE hop... So if you want Tettnangers use the German ones.

-Scott
 

Colby Enck
Intermediate Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 292
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 24.229.200.26
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Skot,

No offense, but where do you get that information from? I've never heard that.

Colby
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1899
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Colby,

there were tests done several years ago and I believe posted in Brewing Techniques.

Our US Tettnang is indeed Fuggle.

also if you look at the HopUnion Stats: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/hops_1.cfm?cat=7

They also state Fuggle.

One use of German Tetts and you will know that they are not the same hop

-Scott
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1900
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Now...

Here:

"Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:00:29 +1000
From: "Andy Walsh"
Subject: US Tettnang really Fuggle!

This one is bound to ruffle a few feathers...

Colin Green of the reknowned Hop Research Unit, Wye College, Kent, claims
that most, if not all of the US (and Australian) Tettnang crop appears to
be Fuggle, in the July/Aug 1997 issue of the Journal of the Institute of
Brewing. Gas chromatograms of 16 "Tettnang" samples from around the US show
the characteristic chromatograms of UK Fuggle, rather than German
Tettnanger.

In addition, single samples of USA Tettnanger and USA Hallertauer
Mittelfruher clones grown in Australia also appeared to be Fuggle.

Samples of (European) Saaz and Tettnanger were also of the same variety.
The USA Saaz sample was indistinguishable from that grown at Wye.
(ie. UK Saaz = US Saaz = German Tettnanger)!

GLC analysis of essential oils is a well established method for determining
the variety of a hop sample. The most likely explanation of the results is
that mistakes were made many years ago during the propagation and selection
of the varieties.

Andy.
(ref - JIB v103 1997 pp239-243)"
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 4128
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>>I believe posted in Brewing Techniques

Yes, I remember reading that article many years ago.
 

Jim O'Conner
Advanced Member
Username: Roguejim

Post Number: 674
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 216.239.160.71
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 07:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Scott,
I avoid U.S. versions of Euro hops. I'm just thinking outside the box here and wondering of 60-70IBUs of Tetts would be palatable.
Jim
 

Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 1096
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 86.128.123.53
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't see why not if you like the flavour. Tettnang have a very low AA so A LOT of hops would have to be used to make 70+ IBU's. A lot of flavour would be carried over from them even in a 90 minute boil. I think it would be an interesting experiment.
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1902
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Now,

I sometimes brew what I call a NUCLEAR VIENNA which is a double malt bill double hop bill of my regular 100% Vienna malt Vienna recipe.

It is all German Tettnangers and it is most excellent. The hops and malt are just a great balance for each other.

Tetts are just amazing.

-Scott
 

Colby Enck
Intermediate Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 293
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 24.229.200.26
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow. I'm astonished that's never mentioned anywhere (catalogs, books, BYO) that I've seen.

The citation is almost 10 years old, though... is it still valid?

(Message edited by TheCheese on April 27, 2006)
 

Paul Erbe
Advanced Member
Username: Perbe

Post Number: 540
Registered: 05-2001
Posted From: 12.27.22.67
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Hopunion Databook makes mention of US Tettang's similarity to Fuggles.
US TETTNANG
Pedigree Commercially grown in the US since the 1980s.
Maturity Early
Yield 1000 1500 kg./ha. or 900 1340 lb./ac.
Growth Habit Fairly neat
Disease/Pest Susceptibility Can display reaction to Prunus necrotic ring-spot
virus infection. Moderately resistant to downy
mildew. Sensitive to insects, in particular mites.
Pickability/Drying/Baling Fair to good
Cone-Structure Medium-compact, fairly small light cone
Lupulin Moderate amount, pale yellow
Aroma Slightly spicy
Alpha Acids 4.0 5.0% w/w
Beta Acids 3.0 4.0% w/w
Co-Humulone 20 -25% of alpha acids
Storageability 55 60% of alpha acids remaining after 6 months
storage at 20 C
Total Oil 0.4 0.8 mls/100 grams
Myrcene 36 45% of whole oil
Humulene 18 23% of whole oil
Caryophyllene 6 7% of whole oil
Farnesene 5 8% of whole oil
General Trade Perception A true noble aroma variety
Possible Substitutions German Spalt Select, German Spalt, Santiam
Typical Beer Styles Lager, US Ales, Pilsner, US Wheat, Bitter
Additional Information US Tettnang is similar to Fuggle. A very popular
hop with the craft-brewery industry.
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1903
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Colby,

Yes... I believe that it is still valid. If you look at the US information it pretty much states Fuggle

"Additional Information: US Tettnang is similar to Fuggle. A very popular hop with the craft-brewery industry."

They aren't really lying or hiding the truth they are just not pushing the truth.

Plus... aren't US Tettnangs more expensive than US Fuggles?

Maybe they are just trying to make a buck?

Maybe they just don't care?

The first big clue that Us Tettnang and Fuggles are the same variety is the cone shape. US Tettnangs also have a ton of seeds in them. German Tettnangers have a tighter cone and very limited seed count.

German Tettnanger: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/hops_1.cfm?cat=8

Fuggle: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/hops_1.cfm?cat=43

US Fuggle: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/hops_1.cfm?cat=44

US Tettnang: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/hops_1.cfm?cat=7

Did you also know that Styrian Goldings are not Goldings? They are Fuggles also.

The Fuggle Hop variety was closely guarded for a long time. As they were snuck out and planted in other world regions they were named different names.

Makes it confusing as all hell sometimes to keep track.

-Scott
 

Colby Enck
Intermediate Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 294
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 24.229.200.26
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now I'm confused. From those pics of the cones I'd say that the UK Fuggle looks like the different one. Do you mean to say that US Fuggle is the same as Germ. Tett and US Tett? Or the other way around (which is how I read the original statement)?

I did know about Styrians, and that was confusing enough!

All that info is interesting though. Thanks for it.

I just went and opened up some hops, to see how the aromas compared: Germ. Tett, UK Fuggle, US Tett. For my money the UK Fuggle smelled more different than the two Tetts (which didn't smell identical, either). Not a perfect comparison, I know. This may call for a split batch experiment.
 

Paul Erbe
Advanced Member
Username: Perbe

Post Number: 544
Registered: 05-2001
Posted From: 12.27.22.67
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe a espionage article on the source of hops and bloodlines. Breeding programs can be pretty secretive and protective.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5636
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All of this then makes me wonder...if Tettnag is a signature hop for US amber ales, are they using the American version, which is more like Fuggles? I would guess they are, but does anyone know?
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 5306
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.239.69
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I tend to think you are right, Denny. The couple of them that come to mind (especially Wynkoop's Railyard Ale) have a Fuggle-like quality to my taste, as opposed to the European Tettnang character of, say, Samuel Adams Boston Lager. I know some people dislike the earthy (I've heard it described as being like dirt) notes of Fuggles and some of their derivatives, but this seldom bothers me.

(Message edited by BillPierce on May 02, 2006)
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5639
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 08:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Especially when you take into account that Willamette hops have a lot of the same characteristics as Fuggles, it seems to make even more sense....
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.