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Message |
    
Joakim Ruud
Intermediate Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 331
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 130.244.202.211
| | Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 10:13 am: | 
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Just had this one at The Rover in Gothenburg, and that has to be the best porter I've ever tasted. Pitch black, very clean tasting, I imagine that the colour is all from chocolate malt, and no black patent. There was actually a hint of the taste from raw chocolate malt, if you've chewed them. Fairly biscuity. Not very bitter.
Much better than for intance Tadcaster Porter, which has a lot of cooked caramel flavour in the bottle 
This one pointed out to me, very eloquently, that I've been heading in the wrong direction with my porters, with high IBU's and black patent malt. Looking forward to trying to emulate it. |
Chris Vejnovich
Advanced Member
Username: Cjv85vmax
Post Number: 510
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 71.28.132.210
| | Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 06:34 pm: |
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Joakim- Sounds like you have been making Robust Porters. Taddy is a very English/London style porter, or Brown Porter. Two different animals IMHO. |
Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat
Post Number: 2134
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
| | Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 06:41 pm: |
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mmmm Fullers!
Try the London Pride on Cask if you get the chance
"Anger is a Gift"
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Brad Petit
Member
Username: Voodoobrew
Post Number: 113
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.22.24.144
| | Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 07:25 pm: |
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Hey, nothing wrong with a nice Anchor Porter either. |
Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat
Post Number: 2136
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
| | Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 07:37 pm: |
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true Brad... So very True
"Anger is a Gift"
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Chris Colby
Intermediate Member
Username: Chriscolby
Post Number: 447
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.27.7.221
| | Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 08:20 pm: |
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Hey Joakim,
If you're trying to make a Fuller's London Porter clone, don't eliminate the black patent malt. You need enough to give the beer some "structure" (for lack of a better description), but not so much that the beer tastes aggressively of black malt.
Fuller's London Porter (FLP) has a very nice chocolately taste and aroma, but not that "flabby" chocolate character you get in some brown ales. In my opinion, this is because it does have enough dark malt and hop bitterness to back up the choco.
Also, you can tell from the color that FLP has some very dark malts in it. (Also also, I've brewed a porter that's very similar to Fuller's twice a year for the past 14 years or so and I use between 5 and 7 oz . of black patent malt per 5 gallons, depending on what I feel like at the time.)
FLP isn't as aggressive on the dark malts as some American porters -- such as Sierra Nevada and Anchor (which are also yummy) -- but I strongly suspect it does have some dark malt to keep the beer from being too "flabby/wimpy."
BTW, use Wyeast 1968 or White Labs WLP002 and you'll get the yeast character right.
Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX |
Joakim Ruud
Intermediate Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 332
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 130.244.202.211
| | Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 09:24 am: |
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I'm not too fond of the American porters, I had an Anchor Porter a short while ago, and to my palate the American hops are not that well suited to such a dark beer.
Chris, are you sure? I couldn't detect any acrid/burnt flavours that I have otherwise gotten. And 5 oz. is a lot more than I've used in my porters! Then again, I've never brewed an all-chocolate porter before.
Beerboy, what do you say? |
Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink
Post Number: 1209
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 83.230.175.138
| | Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 08:53 pm: |
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Joakim, If you can get hold of the RealA le Almanac it will give you a breakdown of the indredients. I'm in spain at the moment drinking p1ss lager so I can't get to my copy, but as far as memory serves I believe it has brown malt and chocolate malt in it. I'll look it out when I get home on sunday and let you know, there is enough information there to formulate a recipe as it gives % of ingredients and IBUS. Damn good beer! |
Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat
Post Number: 2143
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
| | Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 09:24 pm: |
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Drink a Cruz Campo for Me Mat!
"Anger is a Gift"
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Guy C
Intermediate Member
Username: Ipaguy
Post Number: 460
Registered: 09-2003
Posted From: 24.6.136.251
| | Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 10:47 pm: |
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From the Fuller's site:
Smooth, rich, and strong (5.4% a.b.v.), our London Porter is brewed from a blend of brown, crystal and chocolate malts for a creamy delivery balanced by traditional Fuggles hops. |
Greg Brewer
Junior Member
Username: Greg_r
Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 75.4.189.166
| | Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 02:55 am: |
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Just piling on, FLP is my very favorite British beer. It blows me away everytime I have it, I'd love to find it on tap around Chicago. The coffee and chocolate flavors and aromas crush all other porters, amazingly flavorful for only 5.4%. And it is not that hard to find, around ten bones for six in Chicago, just a buck or two over Heineken!
Per their site, no black and only Fuggles. Clonebrews had a recipe w/ 10 oz. each chocolate and brown plus a pound of 55L with pale to 1.055. Please report back if you create a successful clone. |
MJR
Intermediate Member
Username: Mjr
Post Number: 345
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 68.184.210.245
| | Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 05:29 am: |
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I just happen to have my friend's copy of The Real Ale Almanac handy...
Here are the percentages for London Porter:
Alexis and Chariot pale malts ~ 76%
Crystal malt (no Lovibond or description given) ~ 10%
Brown Malt ~ 12%
Chocolate Malt ~ 2%
Fuggles for bittering and aroma. 33 IBU's. O.G. of 1.053.
 |
Joakim Ruud
Intermediate Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 333
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 130.244.202.211
| | Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 07:13 am: |
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MJR, whaaaaa...?
Can that really be right? This beer was jet black, black as original sin. From the recipe you've cited, most of the colour would come from the brown malt. Can brown malt really turn a beer black like that? |
MJR
Intermediate Member
Username: Mjr
Post Number: 346
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 68.184.210.245
| | Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 02:08 pm: |
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Joakim, every London Porter (whether draft or bottle) I've ever had has been a dark mahogany. Not remotely close to jet black. |
Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink
Post Number: 1211
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 83.230.175.254
| | Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 06:02 pm: |
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Scott, had plenty of Cruz Campo, Mahou, and mahou negra, Voll dopple malt and the best of the lot is Legado de Yuste Cerveza de Abadia (vienna style). On the whole not bad as refreshing lagers go, but not that interesting.
MJR thats how I remembered it. It is a pretty dark porter, but not black as far as I remember. So well balanced though. I may have to have a go at this one! |
Joakim Ruud
Intermediate Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 334
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 130.244.202.211
| | Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 06:44 am: |
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Huh. Maybe these guys got their beer lines mixed up, or something like that. It was black as black. When I held it up to the light, I didn't even get any red sparks, like you get with a stout. Still, the flavour was very much as has been described here, lots of chocolate and coffee.
Still, they had about 15 beers on tap, several of them dark, so it's not inconceivable that something got mixed up...
But I wanna brew the beer I had, not some other London Porter!!  |
Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink
Post Number: 1212
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 82.45.4.65
| | Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 06:10 pm: |
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Give the recipe breakdown above a go. Sub Maris otter or whatever pale malt you have for the Alexis and chariot. Everything else should be fairly straightforward to work out. I'm pretty sure that this will match the beer you had. Brown malt adds a lot of colour, as does cholcolate malt. If the crystal is the standard english crystal, use toe 30-40ebc one. That should also add a fair amount of colour.
At least if you give this a go it will give you a starting point from which to tweak.
I might have a go working out a recipe for this so we can compare. |
Chris Colby
Intermediate Member
Username: Chriscolby
Post Number: 448
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.27.7.221
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 02:01 am: |
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Joakim,
Maybe they do use a lot of brown malt and no very dark malts. All I know is I've brewed mine and thought it tasted a lot like Fuller's London Porter (FLP) in a side-by-side. (Plus, FLP seems way too dark to me to be only brown malt and chocolate.)
Then again, maybe I'm totally out to lunch. I'll be brewing my porter again pretty soon. When it's done, I'll have to give it a try next to a FLP and focus on the black malt notes (and also take a closer look at the color).
Edit: OK, I really may be out to lunch. I went back and checked my notes from when I tasted FLP next to my porter. I list the color as "brown" and noted that the levels of chocolate and roast seemed very similar, but no mention of the black malt. I like the bite from black patent, so I might have overlooked this difference. I'll definitely check next time. My notes do confirm that I thought the two beers tasted remarkably similar.
Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX
(Message edited by chriscolby on August 08, 2006) |
Joakim Ruud
Intermediate Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 335
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.10.157
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 09:29 am: |
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Beerboy, I will probably try it but I have to import brown malt, so it'll be a while.
Chris, wanna fill me in on your recipe so that I can brew a porter while I wait for the brown malt shipment? |
Chris Colby
Intermediate Member
Username: Chriscolby
Post Number: 450
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.27.7.221
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 07:45 pm: |
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Hey Joakim,
Sure, here's my recipe (see below).
A couple notes:
I get around 65–70% extract efficiency. Adjust pale malt amount to fit your numbers. My old mill left the dark malts undercrushed, so don't crush them into powder or anything like that. (I just got a brand new mill, however, so I'm psyched.)
The recipe changes every time, mostly diddling with the ratio of dark malts, but this is the recipe from the last time I brewed it.
This has won a couple ribbons in the first round of the NHC and a first place in dark beers at the 2005 Austin ZEALOTS Homebrew Inquisition. (I also served it at my wedding and everyone seemed to like it. There was even this snooty wine guy who I later saw sneaking bottles out as he left.)
I sometimes add molasses (12-24 oz.) and brewer's licorice (about half a stick), sometimes not. Recently, mostly not.
Porter
(5 gallons, all-grain)
Ingredients
8.66 lbs. 2-row pale ale malt (Maris Otter)
2.0 lbs. Munich malt
1.0 lbs. crystal malt (40 °L)
7.0 oz. chocolate malt
3.0 oz. roasted barley (500 °L)
5.0 oz. black patent malt
~50 IBUs Northern Brewer hops (60 mins)
0.25 oz. Fuggles hops (15 mins)
0.25 oz. Fuggles hops (0 mins)
Wyeast 1968 (1 qt. starter -- no bigger)
Step by Step
Mash at 156 °F in 1.25 qts. water per pound of grain. Mash out to 168 °F. Collect about 6.5 gallons fo wort. Boil wort for 90 minutes. Cool wort and aerate with oxygen for 45 seconds. Ferment at 70 °F.
If you pitch a 1 quart starter and run a good fermentation, this conditions quickly. I usually keg it two weekends after I brew it (one week in primary, one in secondary) and tap the keg the weekend after that.
Hope you like it.
Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX
(Message edited by chriscolby on August 09, 2006) |
Joakim Ruud
Intermediate Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 338
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.10.157
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 09:26 pm: |
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Chris, that's about as far from what I imagined as ... I am at a loss for a metaphor.
I figured some crystal, a half-kilo (slightly more than a pound) of chocolate malt, and then possibly some black patent to back it up, and that's it :o) |
Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink
Post Number: 1213
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 82.46.74.83
| | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 06:57 pm: |
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Joakim, for a really simple porter I often (25l) go with an og of about 1.045-50 using maris otter as a base malt. then I just add 500g of Crystal and 500g of chocolate malt, hop with goldings to about 40 IBU's and ferment with a good english yeast strain like 1028 or 1968. Always comes out well and is so, so simple. |
Joakim Ruud
Intermediate Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 345
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.10.157
| | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 08:15 am: |
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Beerboy, that's more or less what I figured that the porter I was having would be, judging by its colour and taste.
Think I'll have to brew them both and see which I like |
Steve Jones
Member
Username: Stevej
Post Number: 224
Registered: 08-2001
Posted From: 24.158.102.149
| | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 04:18 pm: |
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I just put one together in Promash from MJR's stats above based on the Real Ale Almanac. It is pretty dark (SRM 21.3), but not black. Remember that British Chocolate is nearly as dark as Roast Barley - 475L or so - and not like American chocolate (350L or so).
Fuller's London Porter
I'm getting thirsty - must brew this one soon.
Move on please ... there is STILL nothing here ...
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Guy C
Intermediate Member
Username: Ipaguy
Post Number: 461
Registered: 09-2003
Posted From: 24.6.136.251
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 05:14 pm: |
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Crisp malts a pale chocolate malt that's 200-250L.
http://www.brewerssupplygroup.com/malt/crisp_malt.php |
Drew Avis
Member
Username: Strangebrew
Post Number: 222
Registered: 08-2002
Posted From: 209.226.137.107
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 07:07 pm: |
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This is a recipe that's close-ish to FLP:
http://www.bodensatz.com/sb/index.php?Mode=View&Recipe=b184c7b40d0373163ae47b07e 7b6d6f2
Note: I would use Fuggles instead of Challenger (though Challenger *is* nice), and drop the brown sugar, unless you're trying to squeeze a 15 gal batch out of a 15 gal system like I try to do.
www.strangebrew.ca
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Greg Brewer
Junior Member
Username: Greg_r
Post Number: 44
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 75.4.189.166
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 05:40 am: |
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Get the brown malt. That is the flavor that sets this porter apart from others; it is distinctive and hard to pinpoint if you are not familiar with it. I cannot vouch for the ratios in the posted recipe but my version will have equal portions of chocolate and brown. |
Jim O'Conner
Advanced Member
Username: Roguejim
Post Number: 704
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 216.239.160.71
| | Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 02:55 am: |
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Not all brown malts are created equal. Avoid Baird brown malt as it is nothing more than amber malt. I started using Thomas Fawcett brown malt, and the difference was obvious.
Jim
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Brews and Views Archive 2006 
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