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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2007 * Archive through March 02, 2007 * A tip from Ralph Woodall...Hop Union < Previous Next >

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Jim O'Conner
Advanced Member
Username: Roguejim

Post Number: 827
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 204.16.45.114
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 09:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been wondering lately how long pellet hops will keep if stored in vacuum sealed bags at freezing temp. So, I called Ralph Woodall who is Sales Director at Hop Union. His response is 2-3 years for pellets, 1-2 years for leaf. A simple test is to crush 4-5 pellets with a hammer and then rub the powder between your thumb and finger. Then use your sniffer to test for freshness. An interesting comment from Ralph was that oxidation actually increases IBUs, although it can't be measured instrumentally. The increase in bitterness will however be apparent in the final beer. Ralph talks very fast, so I am doing my best to try and remember exactly what he said regarding oxidation and IBUs. Hope some of this is useful.
Jim
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 574
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.8.118
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ray Daniels makes a similar point. His explanation is that as alpha acids diminish, beta acids come to the front and pick up (some of) the slack.
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

davidw
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 1706
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 65.163.6.62
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mark Garetz mentions this, too, in his book "Using Hops". As beta acids oxidize their contribution to overall bitterness (IBUs) increases.
 

davidw
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 1707
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 65.163.6.62
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

However with that said, Garetz infers that the contribution from (oxidized) beta acids isn't at a level that it would make up for the bittering potential lost from the degredation of the alpha acids.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 4066
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.59.245
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speaking of Mark Garetz, what happened to him? I haven't seen anything from or about him in years.

--This space is STILL being left intentionally blank.-


 

davidw
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 1708
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 65.163.6.62
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You might be surprised, Dan!

I'll drop you an email.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6182
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim, good info, but I have to take exception to one point. If the IBUs are increased, they have to be measurable...that's the definition of IBUs. Now, they may not taste the same. I learned a LOT about this when I went to the beer analysis lab last week.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Marlon Lang
Junior Member
Username: Marlon_lang

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 65.0.103.98
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Den-Den,

Was the beer analysis trip associated with the mash hop and/or first wort hop experiments? If so, on which thread will you post the results?

Olde Man Marlon

PS Be there in July. Will call. I see Terminal Gravity IPA at Squirrels.
 

KeepBrewing
Member
Username: Kb7

Post Number: 214
Registered: 05-2002
Posted From: 24.184.80.79
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I gave my garetz book to someone but I do remember reading that some hops are better if you use them oxidized like fuggles ( correct me if I am wrong)
 

Jim O'Conner
Advanced Member
Username: Roguejim

Post Number: 835
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 204.16.45.114
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Marlon, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but I know for a fact that it is a comparison between FWHing, and 60min additions. The test is still in the works...
Jim
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6187
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim is correct....I've sent beer to Jamil for a tasting panel there and we're doing a tasting here on the 26th. We have preliminary lab analyses and are hoping to send some samples on to another lab for more intensive testing. The results will be published in Zymurgy and if I retain the rights I'll post them somewhere online also. At this point, I really doubt the Zymurgy article will be published before June.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Marlon Lang
Junior Member
Username: Marlon_lang

Post Number: 36
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 74.230.199.199
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 02:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim
You, sir, are absolutely right! I stand corrected. Thanks.

Olde man Marlon