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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2007 * Archive through June 06, 2007 * Yeast population < Previous Next >

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Bierview
Intermediate Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 256
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 67.81.178.93
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 12:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we as homebrewers shoot for millions or billions of yeast cells per 5 gal batch?
 

Tom Gardner
Advanced Member
Username: Tom

Post Number: 980
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 75.71.106.238
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1,000,000 yeasties per mL per degree Plato.
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 679
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 85.166.18.167
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...which translates into very roughly 250 billion cells for an average batch (5 gallons is about 19 liters = 19 000 mililiters) of average strength :-)

But last I spoke to JZ about his pitching rate calculator, he claimed that the actual number is 0,75 mill cells for ales and 1,5 mill cells for lagers, which in the above scenario equals:

190 billion cells for an ale and
380 billion cells for a lager.

So, about two Wyeast XL smack packs for an ale and four packs for a lager. Assuming the pack is completely fresh and the yeast 100 % viable. YMMV! :-)

(Message edited by joques on May 06, 2007)
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3574
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 83.226.131.220
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 04:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wouldn't say there really is an "actual number". The pitching rate numbers 1 million/ml/P etc, should IMO be regarded as recommended ballpark rates only. If you don't have clue, they are a good guide. But an experienced brewer that has his tweaking reasons has no reason to get anal about the target rate. That's not to say it doesn't matter, or one should try to be consistent though.

/Fredrik
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 685
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.9.213
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes obviously they are ballpark numbers. But you need a starting point, right? :-)

Fredrik, long time! Are you going to Copenhagen this weekend?
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

KeepBrewing
Intermediate Member
Username: Kb7

Post Number: 264
Registered: 05-2002
Posted From: 24.184.80.79
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 01:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I step up a wyeast pack once or twice. It works for me.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3575
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 83.226.131.220
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Joakim! No I'm not going to Copenhagen, is there anything happening there this weekend? The closest thing I'll get to Copenhagen is the "Copenhagen interpretation". It's funny how salty beers lead me to investige sensing systems in the human brain, and suddenly I was back in my original projects (of which brewing originally emerged as as sidetrack - funny). Unfortunately there are constraints on free time, so I've been "sidetracking" for the last 3 months now, in the quest for a consistent theory of fundamental physics.

I currenlty check in occasionally.

/Fredrik
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3576
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 83.226.131.220
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Btw I was in Oslo again one week ago, and I have to conclude again that I do not understand Norwegian cooking :-) It is a mystery to me.

/Fredrik
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 690
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.9.213
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"No I'm not going to Copenhagen, is there anything happening there this weekend?"

Uh, only the Scandinavian homebrew finals! I am going there to judge on Sunday.

"I do not understand Norwegian cooking"

We have a Norwegian cuisine? I never knew! :-)
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 4788
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What, did they overcook the mashed potatoes and hot dog again?
 

Ron Siddall
Intermediate Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 309
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 198.135.241.18
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"in the quest for a consistent theory of fundamental physics."

Fredik, I already solved this some time ago.

Here is my shortened synopsis: "Gravity makes things fall and inhaling Helium will make you talk funny".
This space open to interpretation
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2564
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 68.106.63.184
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps something that doesn't start with the assumptions of a frictionless surface or a perfect vacuum???

Billions.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3577
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 83.226.131.220
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chumley, the food was just odd from start to end, and ontop of that extremely expensive. Most Norweigans seem to eat only sandwiches for lunch. So I decided by buy a chicken sandwich which was a disaster, the bread was hard like it was a couple of days old and there was no butter on the sandwich... just dry chicken, and some sallad... no dressing no butter no nothing.

All the meals I had was outstandingly odd. The concept of flavour is somehow ignored. It was the same the last time I was there some year ago.

/Fredrik
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3578
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 83.226.131.220
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About the physics I've resumed the long cooking information theoretic approach to physics where physical interactions can be described in terms of learning logic by probability theory, and evolution will be given information abstracted description. I figure it will take me a while though.

The main problems of current physics is the logical inconsistencies between quantum mechanics and general relativity. After 70 years people are still ripping their hair over this, and the best that they have come up with is the silly idea to replace points with jiggling strings.

/Fredrik
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 7053
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fredrik, what do the university physics professors think of you? Are your ideas treated with some respect or are you laughed at or are you thought of as a curious eccentric?
 

Jesper Nymann
New Member
Username: Nymann

Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 62.107.60.203
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Uh, only the Scandinavian homebrew finals! I am going there to judge on Sunday."

Really? I'm going there saturday and maybe sunday. Are you there saturday too?
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 693
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.9.213
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm definitely coming on Saturday also, albeit as a guest only :-)

Are you entering any beers?
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 4790
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 07:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scandanavian homebrew finals....so does the best of show get a 5 euro per bottle tax slapped on it?
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 694
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.9.213
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Uh...no. Why?

Side note: How many Scandinavian countries do you think are part of the monetary union?
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 4791
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know about monetary unions....but a buddy of mine was in Oslo last week, and he told me that a pint of beer in a restaurant cost him the equivalent of 12 US dollars. Ouch!
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 695
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.9.213
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If so, then he probably went to the most expensive pubs there are. Still, even at the cheapest places you'll never pay less than 6-7 USD for a pint of megaswill.

Why home brewing isn't more popular, I'll never understand :-)
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3579
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 83.226.131.220
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 04:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

> Fredrik, what do the university physics
> professors think of you? Are your ideas treated > with some respect or are you laughed at or are
> you thought of as a curious eccentric

I just resumed the work on this, and I'm not affiliated with an institution but there is large disagreement among physics researchers what the resolution to the problems are. It doesn't matter if you are a professor, because as of today noone has the answer. Professors disagree with each other.

The last 30 years most money of theoretical physics research has been put on string theory, which has been dominating the field. Alof of these people has discouraged young students trying pursue other others. Large part of the community has aligned in the research but some parts never like it. Now it seems after 30 years of reasearch they failed to come up with much predictions. There are also fundamental logical and philosophical issues with the way that theory is devised. This has been recognized by part of the community since square one, and ignored by some.

Now alot of people are finally starting to realize that something is totally whacked with string theory. There have been alot of publications lately, some published by former string theory professors that has now made complete turns, and one late book "The trouble with physics" which calles string theory "not even wrong", and more or less accuses it for having wasted a generation of young physicists.

So while string theory isn't dead, attenation in the community is now growing fast that it might be completely off track, and several competing approaches are growing. There approach I look into is worked on by several people, but not very many as compare to string theory.

More and more physics professionals are realizing that we need a radical change which is not just technical, it would need to change the fundaments of the theory. So until the problems are solved, the case is really open, so there is no call for laughing at new ideas because we all need them.

My latest supervisor is now a professor of string theory here, but beeing in the "other camp" so to speak I can guess what he would say. He would hardly be of any help.

My plan is to give this some work, and try to work out a proof of success, at which point I'll probably write paper, and perhaps contact some others working on similar approaches. But most competitive approaches to string theory are young, so a few more years is needed.

/Fredrik
 

Jesper Nymann
New Member
Username: Nymann

Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 130.225.198.3
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 08:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joakim,

I've not entering any beers this beer. I didn't had time to brew due to a lot of work at my university. Tonight I will be at "Den tatoverede enke" and drinking som Närke.
Saturday after the festival has closed I will go the Ølbaren or den tatoverede enke again. You are welcome to join me and my friends for a pint at anytime.
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 696
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 85.166.4.75
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 08:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jesper, thanks for the tip. That pub looks very interesing!

I will be travelling with my girlfriend though, so I might not be entirely free to do whatever I want :-)
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Jesper Nymann
New Member
Username: Nymann

Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 130.225.198.3
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, ølbaren (oelbaren.dk) is very good.
If you haven't noticed yet: allagash and dogfish will be served friday and saturday eve from the Danish Beerhouse stand. You should also try Ølfabrikken, Mikkeller and Amager.
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 698
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 85.166.4.75
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've heard that Nørrebro Bryghus is very good, pairing food and their own beer?
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Hallertauer
Intermediate Member
Username: Hallertauer

Post Number: 465
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 84.169.6.170
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

**How many Scandinavian countries do you think are part of the monetary union?++

Not Norway. With the exception of Finnland, the other Scandinavian countries are in some kind of monetary limbo. The Danish currency floats with the Euro but they pay with their krone anyway, that's something I'll never understand. Sweden is like England in that they are in the EU, but their currency does not float with the Euro. Any Western European country that had a referendum on the Euro becomeing their national currency turned it down every time.
 

Jesper Nymann
New Member
Username: Nymann

Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 130.225.198.3
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, they are make some nice beers too, especially their double IPA North Bridge Extreme.
 

Jesper Nymann
New Member
Username: Nymann

Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 130.225.198.3
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the link below is to a guide containing containing descriptions (in danish) of all the beers (1100 this year!). You will get it when enter the festival, so you wouldn't have to print it.

http://www.ale.dk/fileadmin/ALFA/festival/guide07valby.pdf
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 699
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 85.166.4.75
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You know, I thought it was only a home brew festival! :-) Thanks for the link, looking forward to this!
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 700
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 85.166.4.75
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hallertau, actually, Finland is not strictly speaking Scandinavian but Nordic, so no Scandinavians use the Euro :-)

Agree on the silliness of it. It goes to show that populations can be very irrational and sometimes politicians need to show leadership. The Euro question should never have been put to a referendum. That's like admitting defeat even before the result is in.

We have the same case in Norway with the separation of church and state, where some politicians want to put the question to a referendum. What a cop out.

...have we strayed quite far enough from the topic yet? :-)
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Bill Walton
Member
Username: Vladie

Post Number: 178
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 67.187.98.169
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can back up the positive reviews of both Olbaren and Norrebro (sorry my keyboard doesn't have all the right letters)

Not only does Norrebro have serve good beer, but the food is very good as well. I had an excellent venison dish when I was there. Although being Norwegian you may disagree about the food since it wasn't all white and flavorless

I had a great time at Olbaren, but some of it is a little fuzzy considering I had already been to Norrebro and Plan B by that time.

BW
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 701
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.9.213
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, many of us do actually enjoy flavourful food - just like many Americans enjoy flavourful beer
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Bill Walton
Member
Username: Vladie

Post Number: 179
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 67.187.98.169
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 02:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooh, that was a good one!

My girlfriend is of Norwegian descent and I never knew there were so many white foods until I had dinner with her family.

I'm just bitter because I'm jealous. I wish I was going to Copenhagen for the weekend, instead I'm about to hit the road to go to Detroit.

Have fun.

BW
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 7057
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Copenhagen versus Detroit...now there's a no-brainer choice! I was born in the latter, and I've visited the former a few times. It's clear where I would want to live, but at least you can buy Bell's in Michigan and there's Jolly Pumpkin and other good micros.
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 702
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 84.209.9.213
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 04:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will do, see ya!
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan