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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2008 * Archive through January 07, 2008 * Best ale yeast for pseudo-vienna? < Previous Next >

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Randy Ricchi
Junior Member
Username: Bigr

Post Number: 29
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 24.236.189.178
Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2007 - 11:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've recently brewed a few vienna style ales (I know, Vienna is supposed to be a lager) using Wyeast 1007 and pitching and fermenting at around 58 to 60 degrees.
I'm wondering if there might be a better yeast for this purpose. I was thinking either Wyeast 1010 or the Fat Tire ale yeast. I've used the 1010 before, and it's a nice clean yeast, but I never used it in a beer that requires a nice soft smooth malt character like a vienna does. The 1007 seems a little too dry, and there seems to be a slight tartness, although the beers haven't been cold stored very long yet so they might improve.
To me, Fat Tire ale is an excellent example of a vienna-style ale. Clean, with a soft, smooth malt character which is neither dry nor sweet. I guess that should answer my question, I should get the Fat tire yeast, but I can't help but think the 1010 yeast would give me the same result, and I wouldn't have to order that yeast and wait for it to come in, I could just run to the store and buy a sixer of Widmer wheat ale and culture up the yeast and get on with it. Plus, for the price of a package of yeast I'd not only get the yeast, but 6 beers as well.
So, has anyone here brewed with both the Fat Tire ale yeast and the Wyeast 1010, and if so, how would you compare them? Thanks for any insights you can provide.
 

Dave Witt
Senior Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 71.194.189.126
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1338 European ale yeast is a little less attenuative. I've never used it but going by the Wyeast decription it would seem to fit the bill.

WY1338 European Ale 73-76% apparent attenuation high flocculation 60-72F fermentation range Same as Wissenschaftliche Station 338. Full-bodied, complex; finishes very malty. Produces a dense, rocky head during fermentation. Best choice for American brown ales. Good choice for American fruit and wheat ales.
 

Randy Ricchi
Junior Member
Username: Bigr

Post Number: 30
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 24.236.189.178
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've used that before. Seems kind of finicky. If you don't have a large enough starter, it doesn't attenuate all that well, but it's clean.
If you harvest from the first batch in order to have a better pitching rate and better attenuation in the second batch, the more vigorous ferm in the second batch elevates the temp of the wort and leaves you with fruit salad beer. Better temp control would help, but I'm looking for something less finicky.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8252
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My suspicion is that Wyeast 1007 is as close as you're going to get using an ale strain. If your problem is that you can't achieve a temperature any cooler than 58-60 F, you might try the Anchor strain (Wyeast 2112/White Labs WLP810). I've brewed award-winning lagers with that yeast at 58-60 F.
 

Randy Ricchi
Junior Member
Username: Bigr

Post Number: 31
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 24.236.189.178
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill,
What temp do you think you need to have with the 1007?
I would have thought 58 or 60 would be fine.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8253
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Indeed 58-60 F is a very good fermentation temperature for Wyeast 1007. You can try 55 F if you want, but it is an ale strain and will always be a little more fruity than a lager even if it does finish crisp and dry. I'm not sure what you're seeking.
 

Walter Snarkle
Junior Member
Username: Duvels_advocate

Post Number: 40
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.121.228.221
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 02:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill beat me to the punch, but the first thing that sprang to mind when I read "lager" and "58-60F" was a california common yeast (Wyeast 2112/WLP810). They'll make a very nice pseudo-lager at that temperature. I haven't used the 1010 or Fat Tire yeasts so can't specifically comment on those, but I suspect that cal common will come closer to a lager than any ale yeast.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1430
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.253.156
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some may disagree, but I'm partial to PacMan. It's dry and clean in my experience, which is what you want in a Vienna.
 

Hallertauer
Advanced Member
Username: Hallertauer

Post Number: 508
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 84.169.37.31
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ya what Bill said. I have never won any awards as I have never entered any contests, is that a prerequistite to winning? But my best beers are 100% vienner malt with the anchor steam yeast at 60f. Crisp, malty, and way too drinkable.
 

Paul Erbe
Advanced Member
Username: Perbe

Post Number: 995
Registered: 05-2001
Posted From: 64.233.251.195
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why not use a Lager yeast that is able to ferment at higher temps. I have used Wyeast 2007 with very good results as high as 58F and I bet is would go higher.

A classic American Pilsner strain, smooth, malty palate. Ferments dry and crisp.

Origin:
Flocculation: Medium
Attenuation: 71-75%
Temperature Range: 48-56F, 9-13C
Alcohol Tolerance: 9% ABV
 

Bierview
Intermediate Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 283
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 67.81.178.93
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill,
Would 1007 work well with any lager recipe?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8259
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well enough, yes. Wyeast 1007 is not a lager strain, but it does finish relatively crisp and dry. It also will work down to about 50 F; however, if you can achieve temperatures that cool and are brewing lagers you might as well use a true lager strain. Wyeast 1007 has some (although restrained) fruity esters typical of ale yeasts, and it doesn't bring out the malt quite as much as many lager strains.