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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2008 * Archive through March 01, 2008 * Brewing without leaf hops < Previous Next >

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Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5260
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.55.202
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 09:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just talking to a fellow brewer whose kettle is very dependent on a good percentage of leaf hops to form a filter bed when draining into his counterflow chiller. Leaf hops are getting very dear. His kettle has an 8" diameter stainless screen on the bottom with a dip tube in its center. Pellets pass through the screen ( perforated plate) too easily. We discussed putting a bag around the screen, but I am fairly sure that it would just clog.

Any thoughts? Rice hulls ( probably just float) ? I think he is going to have to rearrange his kettle to pick up from the side after whirpooling.
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2706
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.41
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 09:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pellets in a hop bag(s).

You could also attach a SS braided hose to the end of the dip tube under the SS screen.

I like to use both leaf/pellet ideally, but I think yer right on them becoming very scarce for the next coupla seasons...
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5261
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.55.202
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hop bags are fine except that they only retain the larger particles and flavor and aroma hops probably work best loose.
 

Mike A.
Intermediate Member
Username: Mike_a

Post Number: 422
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 128.173.15.155
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it's a flat bottom kettle and loose pellets are desired, whirlpooling may be the best bet.

I've got a false bottom in my keggle that works best with some amount of whole hops. My current solution has been to just bag the pellets. I've thought about using a 30 mesh SS screen on top the false bottom to filter loose pellets.

Another option is a hop stopper type device.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5262
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.55.202
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is a converted half barrel. Pulling from the side would lose some wort.
 

Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 1342
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 139.76.224.66
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have the same setup your friend has. I have a Sankey keg brew kettle. I have the circular mesh heavy gauge screen with the dip tube in the center.

What works real good is a sanitation loop before you start chilling. this will build a hop-pie on the screen and it will act as it's own filter. The only caveat is too much hops can compact the hop-pie to the point where you are unable to drain. this method works best on moderately hopped recipes using pellet hops.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8414
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My converted keg system is not so different, apart from the fact that I have routed the pickup tube to the side of the kettle bottom. As many people know, I use hop bags (sheer knee-high hose) with pellets. As long as I don't use more than 1.5 oz. of hops per bag, I don't notice much decrease in flavor or aroma (and the decrease in utilization from the begs seems just about evenly offset by the increase from using pellets over whole hops).

I whirlpool the wort at the end of the boil, which results in a nice trub pile in the center of the bottom. I use a stainless scrubbie fitted over the end of the pickup tube. This leaves about 1.5 quarts behind after draining the kettle, but it's rather thick with splooge I'm not sure I'd want in the fermenter, anyway.
 

Tom Gardner
Senior Member
Username: Tom

Post Number: 1071
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 162.119.232.100
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hop bag, whirlpool with a side pickup.

I use a Bazooka screen along the side of my converted keg boil kettle. If he wants to get every last drop just tip the keg toward that side at the end of the draining.
 

William J hearne
New Member
Username: Hurnbrau

Post Number: 13
Registered: 01-2008
Posted From: 4.242.207.202
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My brew tun drains through a ball valve on the side, and has a screen for a false bottom. I whirlpool after cooling then run it through a cheese cloth in a funnel as a final filter at the carboy mouth. There is around 1.25 qts of real yucky crap left in the tun. This works well even with Weizen that has only around 1 oz of hops in the brew.
 

Christopher Allen
Junior Member
Username: Treeboy

Post Number: 61
Registered: 01-2007
Posted From: 130.39.215.216
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 09:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Big ass paint strainer.
 

PaulK
Advanced Member
Username: Paulk

Post Number: 675
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 68.84.198.40
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 11:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yup. Paint strainer bags are my hop bag of choice. Nice and roomy to let hops move about, fine mesh to keep particulate out of your wort and you can pick them up at a manly store like Home Depot unlike ladies stockings.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8418
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 11:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I buy sheer knee-high hose at the dollar store. "Cheap" trumps "manly" for me.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5263
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.29.223.32
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 12:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The strainer methods are fine for immersion chillers, but a counterflow needs a cleaner stream to avoid clogging.
 

Dave Coppes
Member
Username: Pale_dave

Post Number: 151
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 24.62.103.102
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 12:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheap is manly. Isn't it?
 

tim roth
Advanced Member
Username: Hopdude

Post Number: 599
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 12.206.8.165
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 02:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

4 out of 5 brewers recommend cheap.
cheers,tim
 

Jim O'Conner
Senior Member
Username: Roguejim

Post Number: 1038
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 67.133.59.72
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 02:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joe Namath is manly.

Joe wore pantyhose.

Pantyhose are manly.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8420
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For the record, I use knee-high sheer hose as hop bags, not pantyhose, but who can argue with Broadway Joe.
 

PaulK
Advanced Member
Username: Paulk

Post Number: 677
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 68.84.198.40
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan - I use a counterflow chiller on my system. The paint strainer hop bags prevent any issues of clogging.

Bill - How many wearings, I mean how many uses do you get out of those hose?
 

Dave Witt
Senior Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 1063
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 71.194.189.126
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a flat bottom kettle with side outlet. The outlet has a Bazooka. I chill with a Therminator. I have no problems with using all pellets in hop bags. The thing is you can't use muslin bags. They have to be fine mesh and large to ensure good utilization. I use nylon 9" x 24" bags for up to 4 oz of pellets. Anything that gets out of these goes right through the chiller, no clogging. In my opinion and experience, using a fine screen to filter loose pellets usually results in a disaster.

(Message edited by DaveW on January 26, 2008)
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5265
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.55.202
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, where in the line do you put the paint strainers?
 

Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 1346
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.204.51.87
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also use a Therminator and have NEVER clogged it from pellet hops, even when I don't use socks. Only once did I compact my hop bed while employing the sanitation loop, and all that took to rectify was scooping out the caked hops with my stainless stirring spoon.

The only hassle I found is that it sometimes takes a while to get all the tiny bits out of the Therminator when I re-circulate hot PBW. I usually have to run it for 10 minutes each way, then make another hot PBW solution and repeat.

My entire process of cleaning my Therminator is thus:

1. After knockout, I disconnect it and place it in my slop sink and hook it to the hot water line and rinse in both directions for about a minute.

2. I make a 2 1/2 gallon solution of hot PBW in an old fermenting bucket and loop it through my March pump. I use CPC QD's, so switching directions is easy. While I am running this, I scrub out my kettle.

3. The solution will start to discolor and get full of particles, so I just repeat step 2 with a fresh solution. While I run this I continue with other cleanup chores.

4. Rinse out the Therminator in both directions with hot water in the slop sink.

5. drain, dry & store.

6. When it is time for the next brew, I rinse it out and run a loop of Saniclean.(I also have an immersible pump that I use in my slop sink for various applications.)
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8421
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 07:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, if you're careful you can get 7-8 uses out of each knee-high. If you're not so careful or just lazy, well, they're about cheap enough to be considered disposable.
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 1328
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 65.4.225.212
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 01:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ditto me on the . .



for hops sometimes and also grains if steeping for an extract session or if mini mashing.

I'll also confirm BW's report on no problems EVER with the Therminator, even when not using knee highs for the pellets.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 3045
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 74.7.7.66
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ditto on the muslin hop bags being usless for pellet hops.

Knee hi's, nylon hop bags, or nylon paint strainer bags are the way to go. I use knee hi's ONCE. Just throw them away. Although I ran out brewing on Friday and had to use my older nylon hop bags and actaully clean them out and then wash them.
 

Ryan Messenger
Junior Member
Username: Rem

Post Number: 47
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 74.34.7.108
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you guys boil the knee-highs before using them so that you don't have an infection?
 

Connie
Senior Member
Username: Connie

Post Number: 1148
Registered: 10-2000
Posted From: 76.17.52.96
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 01:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think some people boil them to remove any color, but.......when you boil the hops for an hour anyway, don't you think that would pretty well kill any cooties?
 

Ryan Messenger
Junior Member
Username: Rem

Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 74.34.7.108
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 02:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Connie, you are right, I wouldn't be worried about infections when you are boiling the hops for an hour. How about late addition hops? Dry hopping? Do you guys boil the knee-highs for that?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8430
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 03:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ryan, I've never been worried about the sanitation of hop bags. I do wash them before using them for the first time, and again after each use. I doubt they harbor much in the way of nasties. Brewing does not require operating-room sterilization.
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 1330
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 65.4.225.212
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 03:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I typically use the non-colored knee highs so that I don't have to worry about dyes making their way into a brew. I have rinsed them before dry hopping but never boiled them for sanitation . . maybe I should, but it's the idea that beer ready for dry hopping is already pretty immune by the time it gets to the secondary.
 

Steve Funk
Intermediate Member
Username: Tundra45

Post Number: 435
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 209.216.183.190
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I boil new knee high nylons and add a bit of oxy type cleaner. Even the "natural" or "nude" color can bleed a little. After use, I rinse and hang to dry. Next use, I soak in star san and wring out for dry-hopping but otherwise do not sanitize.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 3047
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 74.7.7.66
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The nude knee hi's vary in color from brand to brand. I usually boil them twice in a 3 gal pot to get rid of any water soluable dyes.

If I am dry hopping I will boil the knee hi again and then fill with hops when it's been drained but still hot. Any that go into the boil kettle I just toss in. Even at KO.
 

PaulK
Advanced Member
Username: Paulk

Post Number: 678
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 68.84.198.40
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan asked: "Paul, where in the line do you put the paint strainers?"

I simply use them in the boil (tied off of course). They are roomy enough that I haven't seen any decrease in hop utilization, yet fine enough that I have not had issues with pump or counterflow chiller clogging even with pellets.
 

Jim Williams
Junior Member
Username: Jim_williams

Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 72.221.65.41
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been experimenting with a hopstopper. So far so good. It works pretty well, but, not as well as my false bottom with whole hops. Might be worth checking out
http://www.ihomebrewsolutions.com/TheHopStopper.html
 

BrewerJohn
New Member
Username: Brewerjohn

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 12.217.238.152
Posted on Saturday, February 02, 2008 - 04:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I made a homebuilt version of a hopstopper from two cooking "splatter screens" and some fittings and SS washers. It took some fiddling to come up with the right combination of hardware, but like many of you I take a perverse pleasure in this kind of thing. Anyway it works great; it's the only thing I've tried that has succeeded in filtering out pellets without clogging, even with no whole hops in the mix.
 

William J hearne
New Member
Username: Hurnbrau

Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2008
Posted From: 4.242.195.141
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John, I have tried a lot of things to filter my boil tun but yours is the best Iíve seen. Donít know why I never thought of using splatter screens before, it seems so obvious now. Now that Iíve seen yours I am going to build one like it. I will still take the output from the side though. I waste a lot of wort that way but leave most of the trub behind.
 

Brewzz
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewzz

Post Number: 414
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.112.116.217
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 12:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I pickup from the side as well...I tip the keg and put a piece of 2x4 under the far side when I get close to the bottom...The hops and trub stay put and don't shift much,and I get all but a small amount of wort in the fermenter...YMMV
 

Marc Rehfuss
Junior Member
Username: Marc_rehfuss

Post Number: 64
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 199.133.214.22
Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 08:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just used pellets for the first time in years (all the LHBS had) and neglected (partially on purpose) to whirlpool. Naturally my SS clogged, so I ended up just dumping everything into the fermenter. It's in secondary now and tastes great. Those pesky pellet dry hops better drop soon, though. I will stick to whole hops or use bags or hose next time.

On another note, this was actually my first brew after a hiatus of nearly a year. It was supposed to be an IPA, but I overshot my OG and undershot my FG a bit, plus LHBS gave me Caramunich instead Caravienne, so I'm calling it a strong ale.

Brewing again feels great.
 

The Gimp
Member
Username: Gimp

Post Number: 131
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 208.5.44.21
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rice Hulls are your friend!

They are not just for malt any more.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8517
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 04:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gimp, rice hulls are used in the mash to aid sparging. I suppose they might help if you mash hopped, but normally the amount of hops used in mash hopping is not a problem.

We're discussing problems with hop pellets clogging the boil kettle. You certainly would not want to add rice hulls to the boil.
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 1359
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 208.63.163.183
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 06:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A bit of resurrection to this thread . . .

SWMBO has succumbed to some virulent infirmity and has been laid up in the bed now for 3 days. Me, being the ever dutiful husband, as brought her food and drink . . which has included lots of tea. As I steeped the tea bags in the hot water, I thought, "Why not hops?".

The next time I brew, (which will probably be in 3 weeks) I'm gonna take my pellets, put them in a Bunn commercial sized coffee filter, get a piece of cotton string and tie a clove hitch to secure the top of the filter, then attach a small piece of nylon string to that so I can effectively 'steep' the tea bag of hops in the BK.

So much for the excuse I've been using to buy knee highs!

 

Jim O'Conner
Senior Member
Username: Roguejim

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 204.16.45.31
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 08:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My homemade hop stopper failed me. I uae an immersion chiller, and it seems the hop stopper will perform better when a CFC is used, and the wort is still hot.
 

Mike A.
Intermediate Member
Username: Mike_a

Post Number: 439
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.171.21.204
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used a 30 mesh stainless screen on top the false bottom in the boil kettle. It wasn't without leaf hops but .5oz pellets and 1.5oz Freshops. Sometimes the false bottom alone doesn't filter enough for the plate chiller and it clogs at the end of transferring. The screen worked great as a filter along with leaf, now I need to try it with all pellets.
 

ChriSto
Intermediate Member
Username: Christo

Post Number: 323
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 216.176.226.154
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"SWMBO has succumbed to some virulent infirmity and has been laid up in the bed now for 3 days."

Must be that dreaded knee-high stocking virus I've been hearing about.
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 1361
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 208.63.163.183
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Christo,

When you buckle under to the knee-high virus, you have it for life. You can never cure yourself of it, and you will learn that it actually isnít too bad. You will be especially thankful when you realize how fortunate you are to have knee-high virus as compared to straight braid virus!