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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2008 * Archive through May 30, 2008 * Regional results < Previous Next >

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Bill Walton
Member
Username: Vladie

Post Number: 226
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 76.114.69.44
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Graham Cox cleaned up in the South region! Congratulations.

http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/1st_round.html

Personally, I'm a little bitter about my bitters. I scored a 40 with an ordinary and a 41.5 with a best and didn't even place. Pretty frustrating when the 41.5 at least tied for the top score in the category.

BW
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8859
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Indeed Graham made a very impressive showing. Can anyone dethrone Jamil Zainasheff?
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5565
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.55.202
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, frequently in big catagories where there are more than one flight, the finalists are rejudged in a mini best of show where pointage in not considered.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8860
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's remarkable the number of Jamil's (and also Graham's and a couple of other brewers) beers that will advance to the second round. It certainly makes them the early favorites for the Ninkasi Award for most total points, although many of us know that beers that do well in the first round can falter in the second. It's a different set of judges and the beers may age differently in the interim.

Additionally, it's daunting to think that a beer can score more than 40 points and not place. Yes, in the mini-BOS (someone should find a better name for this; I'm thinking "runoff" as in an election) judging of a category split between multiple sets of judges it's possible for a beer with a lower score to place more highly. Even so, it points out the improvement in the overall quality of homebrew as brewers become more accomplished and sophisticated.

(Message edited by BillPierce on May 09, 2008)
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5566
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.55.202
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree, "mini BOS" is a poor description for the process.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5424
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 03:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Category 1 Light Lager
1 1a Graham Cox of Meridian, MS, Chicken City Ale Raisers
2 1d Graham Cox of Meridian, MS, Chicken City Ale Raisers
3 1b Graham Cox of Meridian, MS, Chicken City Ale Raisers


I see I will have to be nicer to Graham here, since obviously he has perfected his PBR clone recipe.
 

Tom Viemont
Junior Member
Username: Vantas

Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 206.105.78.10
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kris England has a lot of beers going to the second round, nearly as many as Jamil.
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 237
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 12.165.82.136
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do Canadians not like to make lager? There are so few entries in the lager categories. You would think cool fermentations and cold storage would be no problem up in the great white north.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1650
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 208.54.95.136
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks guys for the kind words, I'm in a hurry right now but will write more soon. Cheers
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6766
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 74.92.175.78
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Congrats, Graham! Looking forward to seeing you get some medals at the awards banquet this year!
 

ScottDeW
Advanced Member
Username: Scott

Post Number: 549
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 128.129.13.2
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 05:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, my 2nd place wood-aged is the Flanders I'm sending you (eventually!)

Had high hopes for the others but competitions are often exercises in humility. <grin>

Scott
http://texanbrew.com
 

Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 1525
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.204.51.87
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's not forget to congratulate Flobey (Colby Sheridan):

Category 17 Sour Ale
Sponsored by Captain Lawrence Brewing Co
1 17d Colby Sheridan of Marietta, GA, Covert Hops Society
2 17f Graham Cox of Meridian, MS, Chicken City Ale Raisers
3 17d David & Becky Pyle, Becky Pyle of Springfield, VA, Brewers United for Real Potables (BURP)
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 799
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 75.137.121.197
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and I'm wondering whether or not Graham treated his water for those light lagers.

Simply awesome job, guy. The two pot kitchen stove method is battled tested, and beer judge approved!
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1651
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.161.211.51
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Flobey also placed an "other" mead - great job! Congrats also to everyone else here who placed.

Bill Walton said: "I scored a 40 with an ordinary and a 41.5 with a best and didn't even place. Pretty frustrating when the 41.5 at least tied for the top score in the category."

Bill, I had a 44, a 43, and a 39.5 that didn't move on. I know how you feel, but the mini-BOS process is a real exercise in randomness.

I judged in two of the regionals this year (Midwest and Southwest) and participated in the mini-BOS round in every category I judged (6 total). The mini-BOS judges are presented with half a bottle that was opened as long as a couple of hours before and are poured, at most, an ounce or two of beer from that. In large categories, you may have 12-15 entries to sort through. The judges have to smell and taste, one after the other, all the entries and then start throwing out the ones that clearly don't belong at the top. The first 50% are usually easy. The top tier is where the wrangling begins. Not only are you dealing with beer that has lost most of its carbonation and warmed significantly, but you're also dealing with the level of style knowledge that each judge possesses - or lacks - because you don't have time to pore over the finer details of the style guidelines. Then there's the assertive personality factor. It's a real crap shoot, and I can guarantee that often the beer that was my personal favorite is not the one that wins (there are usually 2 or 3 judges and there has to be some compromise.)

I think, in general, the beers that make it past the mini-BOS process are certainly in the top tier of those presented - they just might not be the absolute best three. The thing to remember, though, is that the points don't matter a lick in the mini-BOS process and are not even considered, because one pair of judges may be grading high and another may be grading low, so rankings based on scores would be an apples to oranges comparison.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1652
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.161.211.51
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 09:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, I did treat my water with hydrogen peroxide and calcium chloride. I didn't dilute my moderately carbonate water but I did check my pH in the mash and it was OK.

Would I have known to do that without this forum? Nope. Thanks again, guys.

Chumley said: "I see I will have to be nicer to Graham here, since obviously he has perfected his PBR clone recipe."

Actually, it was a Budweiser, Chumster! Six-row (a.k.a. "cattle feed" to some snobs), rice syrup solids, bittered to about 14 IBU with U.S. Hallertau and fermented with WY2007. The Lite beer that came in first was simply a diluted version of the third-place Standard American Lager - I added distilled water at kegging, which I foolishly didn't de-oxygenate, and that may come back to bite me in the next round.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1653
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.161.211.51
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill Pierce said: "It's remarkable the number of Jamil's (and also Graham's and a couple of other brewers) beers that will advance to the second round. It certainly makes them the early favorites for the Ninkasi Award for most total points, although many of us know that beers that do well in the first round can falter in the second."

Here's a fun little site: http://www.mindbet.com/index.php

I don't know who does this but they've been doing it for at least the last three years. It's awesome! By clicking through the hyperlinks you can see who medalled in what categories, how they placed, who you're going to be competing against in the second round, etc. And, of course, the overall "power" rankings of the first round.

Freakin' Jamil. You'd think that after winning two of the past three years he'd be a sport and give somebody else a chance.
 

Tom Gardner
Senior Member
Username: Tom

Post Number: 1097
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 71.56.208.229
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Heh, I broke into the top 100! Yeah me!
 

Pacman
Advanced Member
Username: Pacman

Post Number: 881
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 98.227.19.82
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 03:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Congratulations to the B&V'ers first round winners!!!
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 239
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 67.167.4.225
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To quote Charlie Brown:

"I got a rock."
 

Tony Legge
Intermediate Member
Username: Boo_boo

Post Number: 345
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 72.139.4.145
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Congrats to everyone who made it.

Mine didn't make it past the first round, but I did get some great feedback from the judges. The competition must have been fierce.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5573
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.55.202
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had a National ranked judge ask if my extract based bock was decocted!
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 1590
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.236.66.198
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 03:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Mine didn't make it past the first round, but I did get some great feedback from the judges. The competition must have been fierce."

One of our club members got a scoresheet back from the Great Lakes region that had only one word under "Flavor" - "nice". Another sheet, under "Overall Impression" only said, "not an
enjoyable beer", nothing else. Both comments came from BJCP certified or higher judges.

Glad you got better feedback, Tony.
 

Tom Gardner
Senior Member
Username: Tom

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 162.119.64.100
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would report that to the bjcp.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1659
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 208.54.95.130
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would, too. That is unsatisfactory and not reflective of the type of feedback we commit ourselves to providing.

http://www.bjcp.org/bjcpfaq.html#g06
 

Beertracker
Senior Member
Username: Beertracker

Post Number: 1186
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 72.16.21.191
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Agreed. That one needs to be flagged and the judge needs to be aware that he or she is not living up to the standards set forth by the BJCP.