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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2008 * Archive through December 17, 2008 * 1469 and Landlord Clone < Previous Next >

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The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2105
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 92.233.31.3
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seeing as this yeast is supposed to be the Timothy Taylor strain it would be rude not to use it in a landlord clone. ANyone had any experience doing this? Do any TT beers make it to the US and what kind of state are they in when they get there? I've only ever had landlord as a cask conditioned pint where it is always a very good beer. Not outstanding, not groundbreaking, but a very good exammple of a good English cask conditioned bitter.

I found this recipe in Brew YOur Own Real Ale at Home by Wheeler and Protz.

This recipe is for 23l or 5 Imperial gallons

4.7kg pale malt
28g goldings 90 mins
50g fuggles 90 mins
15g goldings 15 mins

og 1.042
mash temp 66C
Mash tiime 90 mins
fg 1.010
ABV 4.3%
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9608
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.192.193
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've never seen Landlord on this side of the pond, only heard good things about it. I have used Wyeast 1469 in two beers, a mild (Jeff Renner's Lucky Penny recipe) and a best bitter (O.G. 1.043) of my own formulation. Both were excellent beers. The yeast is fruity yet it also brings out the malt character. It is flocculent, if a little less so than Wyeast 1968, and it ferments clear with a dry finish, yet it leaves a fair amount of body in a lower gravity beer. In all, I recommend it highly.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2106
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 92.233.31.3
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've just used it on my Bluebird clone and am looking for another brew to use the yeast for. I've not tasted it yet, but it looks to have formed a nice yeast head that is still there on top even though it has finished fermenting. It looks very nice and clear underneath it. I'm going to keg and bottle it tomorrow hopefully so I'll be able to see how it has behaved and if it has lived up to all the high praise.
 

Jeff Rankert
New Member
Username: Hopfenundmalz

Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 76.122.147.39
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have made 2 Landlord clones using this yeast. Internet searches say that TT uses Styrian Goldings for dry hopping, that converts to 5 oz. for 10 US gallons. My lattest batch is dry hopped and is ready for the kegs tomorrow.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5694
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I brewed one recently that I will be tapping on Thursday at the company open house. It is loosely based on this recipe at the Northern Brewer website:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/docs/kis-html/1811.html

I used 8 lbs. of Maris Otter for the fermentables, and also used Challenger instead of Fuggles as I was out of Fuggles.

The NB recipe was based on this Michael Jackson article:

http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000066.html

It seems odd cloning a beer I have never tasted, yet this beer when I brewed it before came out excellent. The 1469 yeast gives off this "nutty" ester that I really like.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9611
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.192.193
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, there's some kind of hazelnut ester in the flavor profile of Wyeast 1469, one of the reasons it would be good in a brown ale.
 

Jim Williams
Junior Member
Username: Jim_williams

Post Number: 64
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 72.221.65.41
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mat,
I'm researching the same at the moment. Styrian Goldings are required. This beer seems a bit darker than what one would achieve with straight up pale malt, leading me to wonder if they caramelize a little, or, possibly do one run off, making it an expensive brew for them, but, how do they get the color? Thoughts?

A few links
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=18198

http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7982&p=80916


Oh, and, how's the bread been?

Cheers,
Jim
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2107
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 92.233.31.3
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting that all the recipes seem quite different and that many use some kind of colour malt.

Jim, It could be caremlisation or a small amount of caramel colouring or crystal malt.

I think I'm going to go with the straight pale (Warminster Maris Otter not Golden promise) and add a little styrian in at the end of the boil. I might dry hop with styrian too.

I'll keep you posted.

By all accounts the recipe is in the book is from info from the brewery, but it has no mention of styrian and other reliable sources do so I think it is going to be a bit of experimentation.

Bread is going well. I have a number of books on my Christamas wish list and have had some more success using a bit of All Purpose flour. The whole wheat loaves are great too.

In the new year I'm going to invest some time into perfecting a basic hearth loaf.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5697
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 08:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That UK thread is interesting in stating that floor-malted Golden Promise malt is 3.5L, while the Simpson's Golden Promise avalable here is 1.7 to 2L. Why would floor malting make such a difference in color.

FWIW, I brewed a kolsch with 100% kolsch malt rated 4.5L....and the beer is a lot more golden colored than the 100% Golden Promise beer pictured in that UK thread. That is why I added a touch of extra dark crystal to the beer I brewed.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2108
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 92.233.31.3
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think the maris otter i use has a similar rating of about 3.5.

I can also get low colour maris otter which is more like a pilsner malt in colour.

http://www.warminster-malt.co.uk/index.html
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5698
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That malt looks good, JB.

I am currently on my second sack of Glen Eagles Maris Otter, which has a color rating of 5.6L. I have been very happy with the results to date. The beer made with 100% Glen Eagle MO does give a color very similar to the TTLB clone picture in the link Jim provided.

http://www.certifiedfoods.com/glen.htm
 

Richard Nye
Senior Member
Username: Yeasty_boy

Post Number: 2119
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 150.202.8.1
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chumley, I'm jealous. I tried to get another sack of Glen Eagles and my LHBS doesn't stock it anymore. That is great stuff!
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9624
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.192.193
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 01:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I bought a 55 lb. bag of Gleneagles Maris Otter for only $37 a little more than a year ago. It made wonderful beer. Unfortunately my distributor says it's no longer available, and of course the price of all malt has gone up, although my cost for domestic two-row is still only $24 (up from $18).
 

Jim Williams
Junior Member
Username: Jim_williams

Post Number: 65
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 72.221.65.41
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 02:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hah! I remember buying flour from Certified while working at a bakery in the bay area. Joe wouldn't remember me, but, I used to deal directly with him. Will they ship?
 

Richard Nye
Senior Member
Username: Yeasty_boy

Post Number: 2121
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 68.111.68.20
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 04:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just bought a sack of MO for $80! I need to find a new source.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2109
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 92.233.31.3
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

16.90 for a 25kg sack for me. Last year it was only about 13

(Message edited by matfink on December 02, 2008)
 

sean
New Member
Username: Ender796

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2008
Posted From: 65.185.59.39
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I actually called Timothy Taylor's offices and asked what distributers here in the states carrys LandLord. They told me that they do not ship it to the states. Pretty bummed since when I had it over there it was great! So once this yeast came out last time I froze some since I wasnt sure it was comming out again. Made up a nice LL clone, and a Stryian Stunner that took first place in the region for the NHC round 1. Anyways this is the recipe I used:

Batch # 19 LandLord Ale
Brewed 3 August 07

8 Lbs. Golden Promise 2 Row
1.07 Oz Styrian Goldings 3.5 alpha at 60 mins
.825 Oz Fuggles 5.0 Alpha at 60 Mins
.28 oz East Kent Goldings 6.9 Alpha at 15 Mins
.40 Oz Styrian Goldings 3.5 Alpha at 0 Mins

Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Ale
mash temp 150F


I also brewed it again and carmalized the wort to get a darker color and flavor. Didnt really like that one as much though. May have been the carmalization or something small that I did diferently. Who knows!

Ender

(Message edited by ender796 on December 02, 2008)
 

Jeff Rankert
New Member
Username: Hopfenundmalz

Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 76.122.147.39
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting information on the Golden Promise. I have used Simpson's (I think) at 1.8L. Wonderful malt flavor. Here is my recipe, 10.5 gallons. No Fuggles or Goldings on hand this last time, but plenty of Willamette.

15 Lbs. Golden Promise malt.
2.5 oz. Willamette 5.4 AA at 60 min.
1.0 oz. Willamette 5.4 AA at 15 min.
1.0 oz. Willamette 5.4 AA at 0 min.
5.0 oz styrian goldings 5.2 AA dry hops.

My Wife likes this one. It is tasty on the hand pump.
 

Randy Ricchi
Junior Member
Username: Bigr

Post Number: 87
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 97.83.154.188
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 02:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Richard, don't feel bad - I recently bought a bag of Dingeman's Pils for $87!
I never paid attention to the price of money, but now I'm waiting with baited breath (or is that with breath that smells like bait?) for the US dollar to get strong again.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2112
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 92.233.31.3
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

UPDATE:

This is what I made:

http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=8326

I got an og of 1.046 and the unfermented wort is very pale so maybe there is caramel or caramelisation going on there. It was pitched onto a yeast cake so took off immediately. Smells great!
 

Vince Turley
Intermediate Member
Username: Vince

Post Number: 326
Registered: 05-2003
Posted From: 192.35.35.34
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just received my order of 1469 in the mail last night and am pumped! I plan to smack the pack this evening (TH), and brew a 5 gal. batch SAT based on the recipe formulated by Jolly (I like the Challenger addition, BTW!).

So, if I want to serve this on Christmas day, what OG should I target? I'm thinking of adjusting the recipe down to a Mild/Bitter gravity (OG = 1.035). My schedule would be something like 14 days in primary, transfer to keg, move to serving fridge and carbonate; serve on day 19. Is this too optimistic?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9638
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.192.193
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That sounds great, Vince. This strain is flocculent (perhaps not quite as much so as Wyeast 1968) and drops clear and bright. Anything with a gravity of 1.040 or under should be very ready by Christmas.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5703
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 04:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1469 is an energetic fermentor, but a poor flocculator. I think you will be okay with that schedule, Vince. However, if you need to crank out a fast bitter for the holidays, Fuller's yeast (1968) is the way to go.

That said, I brewed a 1.043 bitter with 1469 on November 7, fermented it at 62F, racked it to the secondary on November 23, kegged it on November 30, and will serve it tonight at the company open house. I tasted it two nights ago, it is superb. I predict it will be the first keg to blow.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2113
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 92.233.31.3
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is a mighty fermenter. The yeast head is really impressive. It's overflowed my 13 gallon bin fermenting 10 gallons. It has a really big, thick yeasty head. I'm really excited about this one.

Vince, I'm sure that will be plenty of time for a beer of that gravity. In fact I fully intend to be drinking mine by then too. Many real ale breweries have a turn around of beer from mash to cellar of about 10 days to 2 weeks with a couple of days settling time in the cellar before serving so 19 days is a long time by commercial standards.
 

Jim Williams
Junior Member
Username: Jim_williams

Post Number: 67
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 72.221.65.41
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, Mat's right. My understanding of this, and, most low gravity english cask beers is 1 week in primary, 1 week in cask, a couple days settling in the pub, vented and tapped.
 

Vince Turley
Intermediate Member
Username: Vince

Post Number: 327
Registered: 05-2003
Posted From: 66.245.86.82
Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 02:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just occurred to me that I've never actually used Wyeast before. Is there any need for a starter, or is just smacking the pack good enough for 5 gal. of >1.040 gravity beer? The mfg. date is 11/10/08, which is less than 30 days ago. I'm just so used to making up starters with White Labs, feels a little strange NOT to make a starter...
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9645
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.192.193
Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With an XL smack pack less than a month old and an O.G. of 1.040, even I think you should be all right without a starter, especially if you aerate the wort well.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1983
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.253.156
Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's assuming the pack was handled properly, of course.

That's what I like about the Wyeast smack-pack - you are able to test for viability and vitality before use. If it's less than a month old and it blows right up, you should be fine pitching directly into a low-gravity beer.
 

Dave Witt
Senior Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 1208
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.13.31.12
Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vince,

You probably could get away without a starter if the beer is less than 1.050, but aerate well.

I just brewed a 1.041 bitter with this yeast, but used a starter of about 3 pints. That was last Sunday and now the beer is all but done, with just some foam on top of clear beer.