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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2009 * Archive through July 09, 2009 * Using Saflager dried yeast < Previous Next >

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The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2194
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 82.46.66.90
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a couple of packets as I plan on making a lager and don;t have time to order and build up a whitelabs yeast.

I know there have been a lot of discussions on here about this yeast, passion fruit off flavours and the best temp to start it at and to ferment at. So if anyone has experience with this yeast could they please help me in answering these questions.

1. Is 2 packets enough for 10 gallons if well aerated?

2. What is the best temp to start fermentation? Am I best to chill it to my fermentation temperature then add the yeast or to add it warmer and chill to fermentation temp?

3. What is the ideal fermentation temp for this yeast. As far as I remember the lower end actually produced more fruity flavours than a bit warmer. Is this right?

4. Do I need to re-hydrate the yeast or just sprinkle on the top of the wort?

5. Are there any other factors I need to take into account?

Cheers Guys
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 6605
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 74.83.191.159
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I quit trying to use it.
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 1758
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.252.39.203
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've used Saflager to make a nice Baltic Porter.

I used two packets for 5 gallons. I just sprinkled it on top of the wort. Fermented at basement temps at the time, probably upper 50's to low 60's deg F

Can't really answer your other questions, tho, since my Baltic Porter is soooo much different than what you're gonna brew.
 

Alec
New Member
Username: Pdxal

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 71.214.86.92
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you're talking about the S23 lager yeast, I can tell you what I've done...
YMMV, and I'll admit that I go pretty low tech/commando in technique.
I've pitched one packet on a 5 gallon batch twice, each with 1.050ish OG, dry yeast directly onto to wort at 65-70 degrees before moving down to my basement once fermentation activity is evident. Basement temp runs 52-54 here, and has produced good beers with no off tastes.
When I used it for a bock I used 2 packets in the same method with an OG around 1.070 with good results.
Many recommend rehydrating first, or building a starter, but I've had no trouble with the method above.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 6606
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.29.223.32
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 05:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found way too much fruit in it to call the beers it produced "lagers," even fermented very low. I could recommend it for ales that, for some reason or another, have to be fermented low. There are better lager dry yeasts. Superior used to be good, but it is no longer available.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7210
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, AFAIAC, if it's S-23, throw it away.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10316
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've never used S-23, although I have a friend who gets decent results (not really a lager, more like a neutral ale strain) by fermenting it in the low 60s F. At true lager temperatures is seems to throw a lot of passion fruit esters, almost like Hawaiian Punch. Myself, I'd just as soon brew neutral ales with US-05. Wyeast 2206 is my lager yeast of choice; I just brewed a Munich helles with it yesterday that is now bubbling in one of my spare fridges.
 

francisco hott
Junior Member
Username: Frano

Post Number: 27
Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 201.222.144.245
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

why tow away s-23???????
about The Jolly Brewer questions
1 yes it should be enough
2 I don't know
3 as far as I know it work the other way around higher temperatures makes beers more fruity (think about the differences between an ale and a lager)
4 no need to, the good part about rehydration is that you can be sure if the yeast is viable, bisedes that making another step is another risk for contamination.
My experiene I stop doing it, but the rotation of dry yeast in here is good mainly because we can't get liquid yeasts
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7211
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 75.145.77.185
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"why tow away s-23??????? "...The worst beers I have ever brewed, included infected batches, were made with S-23.
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 903
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 75.76.167.200
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think like anything, its in how you use it. I placed in two best of shows and won many blue ribbons with S-23, including in a flight of 48 beers, so go figure.

Use it like a kolsch yeast. Don't expect squeeky clean light lagers.

Pitch 2 packets into 5 gal by sprinkling onto wort, ferment in upper 50's then leave it on the yeast cake for a good week.

If I were doing 2 packs into 10 gal, I'd probably rehydrate to keep from killing off cells, then pitch mid 60's to grow cells, and lower overnight to high 50's
 

Doug Pescatore
Senior Member
Username: Doug_p

Post Number: 2205
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 98.203.74.208
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 01:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bad result at lager temps.

Very good at 55F to 60F. I sprinkle and whisk the living crap out of it.

If you try to use any wyeast lager yeast at belgian temperatures throw the yeast away. If you are going to use and wyeast ale yeast at lager temperatures throw it away....but if you use the yeast at the right temperatures keep them and enjoy.

I think safbrew was a bit over reaching with the name saflager but it seems that when people realized the temperature range they started making good beers.

-Doug
 

ChriSto
Advanced Member
Username: Christo

Post Number: 553
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 216.176.226.154
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 06:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used a combination S-23 and Superior (as the lhbs had one packet of each) in back-to-back Oktoberfest & Baltic Porter last year. 5 gal batches.

Based on the comments received here on low-temp problems with S-23, the Oktoberfest was fermented at 58F for primary and then 42F for secondary. It was a little hazy and was dinged for DMS in competitions with scores around 30, though it was preferred over about 6 commercial oktoberfests at my party last year in the "official" communal taste test.

The Baltic Porter was put straight in the fridge at 48F for primary and ratcheted down to 42F for secondary. I thought this turned out as one of my favorite beers ever brewed, though it was a little light in strength for style (about 1.067 OG) and scored accordingly, again scoring 29 & 32 in two different comps.

No passion fruit or other esters evident in either. As others have said, maybe not the best yeast for lighter lagers but seemed to do ok for mine.

Fermentis' 34/70 is now available in 11g satchets. Reports I've heard are that this is much better as a dry lager yeast. I'm planning to do a Dortmunder soon with this.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2196
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 82.46.66.90
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Soooo, consensus is don't brew a lager with this one.

Next question: What yeast should I use? (whitelabs)

I thank you...
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7213
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FWIW, Chumley sent me a bottle of BVIP fermented with S-23 and it was excellent.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2197
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 82.46.66.90
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

but for a pilsner style lager, what would be your choice of whitelabs yeast?

I'll save the saflager for a baltic porter type thing in the Autumn.
 

Robert
Member
Username: Okierat

Post Number: 240
Registered: 05-2003
Posted From: 138.32.32.166
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 08:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am still planning on giving the S-189 and 34/70 a try. I have not been able to brew the last two months. Hopefully this weekend.
 

Steve H.
Member
Username: Steveh

Post Number: 169
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 65.78.80.52
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 09:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have used S-23 successfully but much happier with 34/70. Never could find S-189 in homebrewer's size.

Steve
 

Tony Legge
Intermediate Member
Username: Boo_boo

Post Number: 446
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 174.116.59.12
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

S-189 is available here in Canada somewhere in I think 11g size packs. If I can find the link, I'll post it.
 

Robert
Member
Username: Okierat

Post Number: 241
Registered: 05-2003
Posted From: 138.32.32.166
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.americanbrewmaster.com/product_info.php?products_id=2349
 

Brewzz
Advanced Member
Username: Brewzz

Post Number: 652
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.112.116.217
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 11:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've used 34/70,and it made a very tasty lager.
I will use it again...
Cheers,Brewzz
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5808
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 71.217.153.90
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 04:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sheesh, guys, lets focus. Jolly asked what White Labs yeast to make a pilsner....TWICE.

JB, I am mostly a Wyeast man, but I have brewed a few times with White Labs lager yeasts. Here's what I have liked:

WLP802 Czech Budejovice Lager Yeast - NOT Budvar but from another brewery in the same town, goes by the "Crystal" label in the states......very dry and crisp beer, great for German/Dutch style pilsners, like Bittburger, Heiniken, Royal Brand, etc.

WLP833 German Bock Lager Yeast - the Ayinger yeast. Finishes more fuller for more of a PU type of pilsner.....also is great in a Helles. When you want some residual malty sweetness.

I have also had great success with WLP838 Southern German Lager Yeast....I think it is the equivalent to the Wyeast Munich Lager strain.....I would certainly use it in a pinch, but prepare for nasty beer fart sulphur stink and a tad longer conditioning time. But well worth the wait.
 

PaulK
Advanced Member
Username: Paulk

Post Number: 811
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 68.63.203.31
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 04:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great for a Baltic Porter in the low 60's. Garbage at lower temps.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 2198
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 82.46.66.90
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 08:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Chumley. I think ultimately I prefer wyeast, but the homebrew shop I use mainy stocks whitelabs so I'd have to special order any wyeast. (like I did with 1469 and it was well worth it!).
 

Steve H.
Member
Username: Steveh

Post Number: 170
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 65.78.80.52
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert

Thanks for the link for S-189
 

francisco hott
Junior Member
Username: Frano

Post Number: 30
Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 201.222.138.209
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 01:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny
you were right about the S-23.
the day before I saw this post I did a beer with this yeast and here are the results:
C:\Documents and Settings\frano\Escritorio\infected.jpeg
}}
 

francisco hott
Junior Member
Username: Frano

Post Number: 33
Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 201.222.138.209
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 01:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorry about that
I hope I can upload the photograph now
C:\Documents and Settings\frano\Escritorio
 

Michael
Advanced Member
Username: Hoppop

Post Number: 974
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 24.74.164.235
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 02:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is that a shot from the upgraded Hubble telescope? If not, my condolences.
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 904
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 207.98.189.111
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 02:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ah, is this the old 'the yeast company infected my beer' philosophy?

or maybe you are saying the beer was so bad you puked it all into a bucket, and this is what it looks like when regurgitated? ;)
 

Doug Pescatore
Senior Member
Username: Doug_p

Post Number: 2209
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 98.203.74.208
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 01:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Looks like the saflager fermented your beer even with your poor sanitation practices.....not bad.
 

Tony Legge
Intermediate Member
Username: Boo_boo

Post Number: 451
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 174.116.59.12
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

S-189 is available at http://www.gilbertsonandpage.com/Site/Home.html in the 11g size right now. Ask for Helen.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10396
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 12:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gilbertson & Page are my local (well, an hour's drive) malt supplier, and the supplier to most of Ontario's breweries. They're also a godsend to all-grain homebrewers in southern Ontario because they're willing to sell to individuals at very reasonable prices. I pay the same price as a brewery for a one-bag lot. However, they don't ship or deliver small orders, so everything is F.O.B.

Tony, have you talked them into shipping to Newfoundland?
 

Tony Legge
Intermediate Member
Username: Boo_boo

Post Number: 452
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 174.116.59.12
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Helen is going to quote me a price on shipping a few sachets of S-189 to me, yes. I only told her I wanted info on Canadian suppliers of 11g packs of S-189 yeast. I'm supposed to get a quote today. I'll let you know if I do.

BTW they now carry the full line of Fermentis dry yeasts

(Message edited by boo boo on June 03, 2009)
 

Tony Legge
Intermediate Member
Username: Boo_boo

Post Number: 455
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 174.116.59.12
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, just got an e-mail back from Helen,
No S-189 in 11g packs, but she is checking other suppliers she has shipped to.

But yes Bill she was willing to ship via fedex to me.