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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2009 * Archive through August 24, 2009 * Malliard reaction < Previous Next >

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mark taylor
Intermediate Member
Username: Marktaylo

Post Number: 294
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 99.25.115.19
Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the last local homebrew club meeting we had the pleasure of local distiller Danial Farber www.osocalis.com/
give a presentation on making brandy. One interesting point made during the talk was that the preferred distillation vessel was copper rather than s.s. because of the desired malliard effect the copper had in the process. Made me wonder how much the flavor of beer would be changed by boiling in copper? Has anyone done this comparison?
mark
www.backyardbrewer.blogspot.com
www.thebackyardbrewer.com
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 2245
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.15.96.251
Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 01:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mark, I have not, but I would only offer what I suspect you know anyway, that copper itself has no effect on Maillard reactions as a catalyst (that I am aware of); rather, it is a far better conductor of heat than stainless steel, aluminum, or any of the other cheaper alternatives that are commonly used today.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10557
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 02:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A good friend of mine in Iowa, where I was last week, sells, installs and services process control equipment for a variety of industries. One of his customers is the Templeton Rye Distillery, a boutique operation in the unlikely location of the town of the same name (population 334, just slightly smaller than Lynchburg, TN). They have been in operation since 2005 and have begun an expansion program to keep up with the growing demand. According to my friend, although the recipes date from before Prohibition, the process is quite automated, with only three people handling the mashing and distilling, three more involved with cellaring, and two in the office. Everyone pitches in for bottling. One of the benefits of doing business with them is being allowed to sample various batches of private stock.
 

Jeff Rankert
Junior Member
Username: Hopfenundmalz

Post Number: 89
Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 76.122.184.255
Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the NHC, one of the talks said that as homebrewers using direct heat, we will have hot spots that are good for production of Malliard reactions. Copper would enhance the hot spots.

Another talk (one of the Mosher/Daniels sequence of talks) said that hot spots were bad. They recommended using a thick piece of AL between the fire and pot (flat bottomed pot that is). The reason given that hot spots are bad escapes me - too much time in the hospitality suite.

I also learned it is pronounced "May-yard", as I had wondered how it was pronounced.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7244
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 06:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As I recall, Ray actually said to put a piece of "something" under one side of the kettle so it would be hotter there and force a rolling boil
 

Jeff Rankert
Junior Member
Username: Hopfenundmalz

Post Number: 90
Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 76.122.184.255
Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the info Denny.

I will be looking at the presentations when they are up, to see what I can't seem to remember....
 

David Root
Junior Member
Username: David_r

Post Number: 27
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 66.67.152.22
Posted on Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 12:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tilting the kettle does the same thing. Instead of boiling at odd intervals, if the kettle is tilted only a little, the boil goes up one side. This seems to churn the entire pot better with less boil over.

I also found throwing a little change ($.003) or 3 quarters ($.75) will make like nucleation sites. If I don't do it, the kettle will burn right where the flame hits it in the center.

David :-)
 

Jeff Rankert
Junior Member
Username: Hopfenundmalz

Post Number: 91
Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 76.122.184.255
Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some of the PDF's are up from the NHC. Here is what I was remembering in a hazy way.

Randy Mosher was talking about stalling, and one of the issues was high heat density "hot spots" that can lead to increased stalling. "Flame-tamer" is the term they used for a plate of metal under the pot to distribute the heat better.

Go to page 5 in the "bad news, good news" slides.

http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/presentations/2009/RDRM-BBB-ATRM1-Advanced%20 Topics.pdf

So one talk ( I think it was Michael Ferguson) said hot spots are good for Malliard, another said those can be bad for stalling reactions.