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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2010 * Archive through April 28, 2010 * Legalization of home brewing & wine making in Alabama < Previous Next >

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Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 944
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.73.219.58
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 02:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gentlemen,

In these many years of our conversations I don't recall asking anyone here for a favor.. Well, that is about to change.

I am fighting hard with alot of other brewers in Alabama to legalize homebrewing, and wine making.

BACKGROUND OF 2010 LEGALIZATION EFFORT:
The bill passed the senate and was on the cusp of coming up for a house vote, but now is facing opposition from three sides. The Alabama Beverage Control board, the paid southern baptist PAC/lobbyist, and a paid lobbyist for the beer wholesalers in the state.

The only threat is the beer wholesalers; they have a huge amount of power and have stopped our bill in its tracks. It is as-if every legislator is on a string they are pulling.. I won't go into specifics or air dirty laundry here, but lets just say we will have tack on an amendment that is meaningless to make them happy, which means that our bill is likely dead, because nobody ever makes through the senate twice in one year.. Was this a passive-agressive way to kill the bill? who knows.. I have my own opinions on the matter. But if we have a huge response of citizen driven interest, we can really sail through the process and might make it this year!

WHAT I AM ASKING FOR:
We need much deeper saturation of Alabama's legislative districts, and have started a massive campaign to find any and all homebrewers or winemakers..

Please send a note to anyone you know in Alabama.. Ask them to visit the following website and write at least a short paragraph stating their support for homebrew legalization:
http://www.supportsb153.org/write-a-letter


If you have alot of Alabamian friends on social networking sites, please do me the favor of changing your status to something like the suggestion below, or tweeting about the bill..

Below is a suggested facebook status:
--
Alabamians: Homebrewing and winemaking in Alabama is still illegal in Alabama for responsible adults. The punishment if convicted is a felony with 1 to 5 years hard labor, and the state can seize ownership of the house and land where the beer or wine is made.. This for a respectable hobby that was legalized federally in 1978 and is widely practiced throughout the US.

If you live in Alabama and think this law needs to be changed, please ask your State Senator and Representative to support Senate Bill 153 and legalize homebrewing and winemaking. Simply click the link below and write a quick message to your state legislators, or to learn more about this bill. The process will take less than a minute.
http://www.supportsb153.org/write-a-letter

--

Edit as you see fit, the main thing is to put up the link, so we can capture their message and get it in their legislator's hands.

(Message edited by brewdawg96 on March 11, 2010)
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11396
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 02:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree entirely with Tom's efforts. Everyone in Alabama should let their legislators know the importance of this bill.

I should point out one thing. Legislators in the individual states are very sensitive to what they see as interference from those who are out of state. To put it more diplomatically, in Alabama they want to hear from people in Birmingham, Huntsville and Mobile rather than from California, Colorado and Florida. Therefore if you are not in Alabama it would be much better to to tell people you know there to contact their legislators than to do so yourself.

By the way, legislators tend to be very responsive to individual constituents if they are contacted politely. Part of the problem with many bills is that often the only input they receive is from lobbyists and other special interests. Laws tend to be made in something of a vacuum.

(Message edited by BillPierce on March 11, 2010)
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11397
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 03:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To add another note, it seems shortsighted for beer distributors to oppose homebrewing. It shows their lack of understanding when they see homebrew as competition. They need to be shown that homebrewers increase the demand for craft beer because they are educated consumers who appreciate the product. The major brewers gave up their opposition to homebrewing decades ago; the distributors should follow suit.
 

Nephalist
Intermediate Member
Username: Nephi

Post Number: 271
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 71.134.50.209
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 04:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm never leaving California
 

Jeffrey Swearengin
Senior Member
Username: Beertracker

Post Number: 1294
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 216.97.167.75
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 05:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm behind you guys efforts 110% because we're working on doing the same here in Oklahoma and it ain't easy. My dad currently lives in AL, so I fwd him the info. He likes my homebrewed doppelbock when he visits, so it shouldn't be too hard to "bribe" him into e-mailing. Keep carrying the torch!
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 945
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.73.219.58
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 05:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

great, thanks beertracker.. It is amazing what one person's voice can do.. if they live in the district of the person they are writing/calling..
 

John Baer
Intermediate Member
Username: Beerman

Post Number: 304
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 65.96.82.180
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Try to get the story on the O'Reilly Factor, politicians seem highly adverse to being named on that program. A recent example is the legislation change on underage girls dancing nude in Iowa that languished for a number of years. It was passed suddenly within a couple weeks of Bill O'Reilly's story about it.

Politicians beholden to a special interest that prevents honest citizens from pursuing an enjoyable hobby for the benefit of said special interest's stranglehold on state commerce sounds like a story to me.

JB
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 1859
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.252.36.22
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, keep fighting the good fight.

We faced similar obstacles in Indiana when we were trying to change the laws here re: HB'ing. It took three sessions at the Indiana Statehouse (AKA the sausage factory), but we finally made it thru the gauntlet in 1999.

It really helped that I live in Indianapolis, and could make it downtown on pretty much a moments notice for committee hearings. The schedule seemed to change on moments notice some days.

I remember at one hearing when a lobbyist for Miller Brewing came up to me afterward and asked if we were trying to change the law so we could sell HB. Somewhat astonished that a giant factory brewer was so concerned with hobbyists, I told him that no, we weren't. I then told him that I thought Miller spilled more beer in a day that all the Indiana HB'ers collectively made in a year, and given the time it takes, we'd have to charge about $100 a gallon for our beer (slight exaggerations, I know). He smiled and said, "OK, then, we support your bill."

I guess he was trying to justify whatever Miller paid the lobbying law firm he worked for.

Bill's right, getting AL citizens from all over the state to contact their representatives in Montgomery is key to getting your HB law thru.

If you've got people in the capital that can get to hearings, meet the legislators, etc, it really really helps. "Face time" is key.
 

davidwaite
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 2059
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 65.163.6.62
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We had some good news in the Great State of Iowa this week: yesterday our fine governor signed a bill into law allowing Iowa breweries to brew beer up to 12%. Prior to this anything above 6% that was "imported" had to go through the state liquor distribution centers and was taxed at the same rate as liquor. Imagine paying $18 for a four pack of Goose Island IIPA, good thing I homebrew. The breweries and brewpubs are already jumping all over this. In a few weeks we should start to see an increase in variety of beers on tap and on the shelves from breweries right here at home. It's been a long time coming.
 

davidwaite
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 2060
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 65.163.6.62
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And I wouldn't give O'Reilly that much credit, John. Underaged girls "entertaining" came on the radar last year when a young woman (she was 17 if I remember correctly) was found working at one of the gentlemens clubs. Realizing that there *was* a loop hole is why the law was changed. The timing was due to the bill moving through the process of legislation. Not because O'Reilly reported on it. Though I have no doubt he will enjoy taking credit for it.
 

Bierview
Advanced Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 698
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 68.193.150.3
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 03:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm amazed to hear that a state outlaws the hobby. Are there any others?
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 1860
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.252.36.22
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bierview,

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes

This link will give you the opportunity to look, state by state.

In some states, the laws are vague that they're listed as "possibly permitted" or "not statutorily recognized". The latter means that there's no laws in that state specifically permitting homebrewing. Some people say that if there's no law against it, it's legal. Others say that if there's no law permitting it, it's illegal. Depends on who you ask...

(Message edited by pedwards on March 11, 2010)
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11399
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

According to the AHA, the states where homebrewing may not be strictly legal include Alabama, Mississippi and Oklahoma. Of course it has been a very long time since there were any prosecutions in these states, and homebrew shops and clubs operate there relatively openly.

There are a few other states where the legal language may not be as clear as the AHA would like.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 2443
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 71.234.45.166
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To add another note, it seems shortsighted for beer distributors to oppose homebrewing. It shows their lack of understanding when they see homebrew as competition.

I think that a lot of the older distributors just aren't set up for craft beer. It's really a different business model.

An old-line Bud distributor is likely optimized for delivering large quantities of a few options very cheaply. The customers are not fickle -- armed with a weather report and a local event calendar, you can probably predict demand very closely. Stock mostly sells through, so there is no need to check sell-by dates, pull stock off shelves, deal with returns, etc. Cost is your main concern. Deliver the commodities and promotional materials on a regular schedule at low cost and you stay in business.

Craft beer, to them, must look like chaos. Beers come and go. Fads rage and fade, leading to unexpected shortages and stuff on shelves going stale. ("I've got 200 cases of cedar-aged licorice cherry bourbon doppelbock I can't shift!") Short runs and vintage dating require tailored promotions and deep knowledge of the product. You probably need an office worker checking beeradvocate.com and ratebeer.com to get a handle on trends.

And your clients probably know less than you do half the time. So the only way to ensure sell-through is to spend a lot of time in the bar or liquor store, arranging shelves and putting up promo material and educating the owner. Much more of a partnership than a client-supplier relationship.

No surprise that here in CT, the craft beer distributors tend to be completely separate businesses from the BMC distributors. Mostly small, young companies not associated in any way with the bigger, older ones. Sure, the big guys now have to deal with Blue Moon and Bud Ale and some other quasi-craft beers in the BMC line-up. But Sam Adams is about as crafty as they are likely to go.

So, to get back to the point, homebrewers and craft beer lovers will always be a threat to older distributors. They can't compete in a market alien to their entire way of doing business. Better for them to just go back to 1975, when people drank what was put in front of them.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11401
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, you are likely correct, and I will retract my statement. It's too bad that distributors would try to take advantage of the 21st Amendment allowing state and local jurisdictions to regulate alcohol, surely a very clear example of the law of unintended consequences. Imagine this occurring with other beverages such as coffee or soft drinks, for instance. One of the most obvious consumer marketing (and communications) trends of the past 20 years has been the growing diversity of offerings and fragmentation of the audience. Coupled with this is a preference for less bland, uniform flavors and more interest in regional variations. Long gone are the days when Maxwell House, Velveeta and Wonder dominated their respective national markets.

(Message edited by BillPierce on March 11, 2010)
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 6995
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 208.102.181.43
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps distributors believe, with probably good reason, that homebrewing will take a swill customer and turn him into a craft brew customer. It eats into their "bread and butter." This, at least, was my story.

"Cedar-aged licorice cherry bourbon doppelbock" without elderberry flowers, Never!
 

Bob D
Junior Member
Username: Fl_bob

Post Number: 100
Registered: 07-2007
Posted From: 68.35.223.3
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 06:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good luck, Tom. I thought after that story broke in the national media about the homebrewers in Alabama, legislators would come to their senses.

By the way, this year's Cedar-aged Licorice Cherry Bourbon Dopplebock is not as good as it used to be.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11405
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wouldn't want to say that I place strict faith in the ability of consumers to be discerning every time. If you are to accept the ratings on Beer Advocate and RateBeer, there does seem to be something of a correlation between the ranking of beers and their availability. Many of the highest ratings are for beers in very limited distribution. Part of human nature is the belief that what you can't have must be better than what you can, or perhaps more correctly the converse: it must be better if I can have it but you can't.

(Message edited by BillPierce on March 11, 2010)
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 946
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.96.129.159
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


quote:

Of course it has been a very long time since there were any prosecutions in these states,




That is not true at all in Alabama. One ABC agent in the Mobile office was quoted as saying "we haven't made an arrest in about 5 years".

They can and do go after homebrewers. The HB shops get it the worst.. Every time a new ballsy young agent finds out about a store they try to close the place down.

The laws reads that any equipment that has been used for, is being used for, or could be used for making 'illegal liquors or beverages' in possession of someone is a felony and can be confiscated. That can be misconstrued to mean a cajun cooker is illegal in Alabama.. They take people's equipment all the time, and fine them.

The person featured in the LA times article (Scott Oberman) got a letter and had to go down and sign a statement that he realized it was an illegal activity..

The ironic thing is everybody wants it changed. The legislatures, the ABC, the general public. The thing that is keeping it so backwards is that Alabamians who vote always elect backwards thinking idiots!!
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 1861
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.252.36.22
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 06:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here in Indiana, the distributor that handles Miller, Coors, and Guinness also happens to be the biggest craft beer distributor in the state.
They were fully supportive of our HB law as it proceeded thru the statehouse.

They just moved into a 500,000 sq ft (that's about 20 acres) warehouse, which is supposedly the single biggest beer warehouse in the US. And they put in enough infrastructure and foundation to double the size of the warehouse if they need to.

They have a separate division and sales staff within the company to handle sales & promotion of craft beers.

So when the truck full of pallets of Miller, Coors & Guinness heads out, a pallet or two, or even a half pallet of craft beer can ride along.

The warehouse has a highly automated system for picking beers to fulfill each order. They went from about a 10 percent error rate using manual hand picking for pulling craft beers to less than 0.1 percent error with the automated system.

With the manual human picking, the craft beers from each brewery had to be separated. If they had, for example, all the Bell's beers located on shelving next to each other, the pickers would invariably pick they wrong case.

Now, the beer get scanned and automatically put into bins for later retrieval all with computer & robotic control.

Plus they can load the trucks in the reverse order of a driver's route so searching for an order in the back of a semi-trailer is no longer an issue.

"Cedar-aged Licorice Cherry Bourbon Dopplebock"?

hmmm, reminds me of a local HB'er who tried to brew a Raspberry-Coriander-Pumpkin Dunkleweizenbock.

you didn't miss anything, trust me...
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 2444
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 71.234.45.166
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, you obviously have a smart person running your beer distributor. I wish we had someone like that in CT.

Tom, despite the distributors, I'm sure you can get this through. We had a similar fight getting growlers legalized in CT, with everyone and his brother lined up against it at first. But perseverance, especially in collecting lots of signatures at beer-related events, eventually turned the tide. Good luck!
 

TappedOut
Junior Member
Username: Tappedout

Post Number: 52
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 205.175.225.22
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 09:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

davidwaite -- the new Iowa law permits up to 12% ABW, or ~15% ABV, though the Brewers Assoc email on it got it wrong. I'm glad we no longer have to depend on our comrades at the State Liquor wholesaler to mark up 50%, abuse the beer, and not pay the brewers on time.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11412
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm sure my friends at Iowa craft breweries have barley wines and other commemorative strong beers on their calendars. It was always an aggravation for them to have strong beers from out-of-state breweries sold in Iowa, even if only through the state-contracted monopoly wholesale liquor distribution system, but not to be able to brew these beers in-state. The consumer didn't really know the difference, apart from the fact that strong beers were rarely seen on the shelves and at very high prices.

A somewhat similar situation occurs here in Ontario. Craft brewers can brew strong beers, but the provincial liquor monopoly (both wholesale and retail here) just doesn't quite "get" beer marketing. They do an excellent job of promoting the native wine industry, but beer mostly gets left in the lurch.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 7006
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 75.246.182.10
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 03:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ohio increased their beer alcohol limit from 6% by weight to 12% by volume . . . .
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 947
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.96.129.159
Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 01:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An update on this: The 2010 bill is dead.

The Alabama Beer Wholesalers Association didn't like the "wording", and were able to have the bill stopped in the House committee that votes on Alcohol bills. It was really about the AWBA lobbyist sending a message that no alcohol bill goes through without her blessing..

The AWBA lobbyist was also apparently angered when craftbreweries started contacting their distributors asking for their support for the bill.. There was great support from Stone, Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, etc.

The lobbyist got in touch with the bill sponsor in a hurry and said to stop making waves if we wanted any chance of passing.. Then when we did stop and roll over (against my and others opinions), she killed the bill..

Oh well.. BTW, the passive types in the legalization group believes no one should discuss this publicly, but I think only 50 people read this board anyway..
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11531
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 02:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In most states it takes several tries to pass legislation. The political process is not pretty, and it requires a lot of horse trading and going along to get along, as they say.

Thanks to those in Alabama who made the effort. One thing politicians understand is persistence, so I hope homebrewers don't give up the fight. You win some and you lose some, but you also get to play again.

As for better news according to what was said on the AHA's mailing list, it appears legal recognition of homebrewing is on track in Oklahoma this year. That would leave only Alabama and Mississippi as the holdouts.
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 1875
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.240.206.198
Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It took us 3 sessions (3 years, as our elected reps are only part-time) of the Indiana State Legislature (aka the Indiana Sausage Factory) to get the HB laws changed.

Keeping fighting the good fight, Tom.

It may be a tough road, but if you can get the ABWA lobbyist on your side somehow, by showing that HB'ing doesn't compete against her group's sales, but rather actually improves sales, you'll be "money".
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 949
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.96.129.159
Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 03:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, a bizarre turn of events! It seems there is a bit of a political power play going on. One rumor is there was a falling out and someone is acting out of revenge.. Whatever happened, the homebrew legalization bill is the beneficiary.

The person who was holding back the bill is now pushing it very hard.. The bill is on the committee calendar for tomorrow and insider talk is that it is favorable to pass..

It could in theory be voted on in the House as soon as Thursday.. No silly amendments will be required, so it won't have to go back to the Senate.

Wow, politics is crazy.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 2478
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 71.234.45.166
Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11603
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just another example of what John Godfrey Saxe (often attributed to Otto von Bismarck) said in 1869: "Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made."

Good luck indeed.
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 1890
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.240.200.145
Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"What a long, strange trip it's been..."

Good luck, Tom.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 11605
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 03:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Sweet Home Alabama." Play that dead band's song.
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 950
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.73.219.58
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh well, last update is the committee didn't make a quorum.. Bill died this year. Not surprising I guess. The chairman bucked the lobbyist who has given him big donations, but there were enough other people on the committee that didn't show up..

Were the people that didn't show the same people who also receive donations from this lobbyist? Ah that is the beauty of how they have it set up.. You never know because the committee meetings are not public, nor are the results of their vote.. It is the perfect veil to hide any semblance of impropriety.

I personally think that is why the committee members are the only people being donated to.
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 1899
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.240.200.145
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry to hear that, Tom.

non-public committee meetings? non-public votes?

Geez, at least here in Indiana, shenanigans like committee meetings and votes at the Statehouse are in public. Now, conversations between lawmakers and lobbyists on the elevator are a different matter entirely.