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Ken Anderson
Advanced Member
Username: Ken75

Post Number: 575
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "Congratulations Denny" thread would get slayed with any more Bush stuff, but how about the 20,000 to 30,000 terrorists now said to be operating in Iraq?
Hey! Wait a minute! I thought George invaded Iraq as part of a plan to get RID of terrorists, not create them! What a douche bag. How can any thinking person support this administration???
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1711
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 02:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I shouldn't get started on this, as I had my fill of politics on November 2 (there are probably more than a few readers enjoying my consternation). But my anger is not really directed at Dubya himself; it's his advisers who get my goat. I can't believe that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz didn't anticipate what would happen in Iraq. In my mind they played on the anger and frustration of the American people following September 11, 2001 to further their expansionist and unilateralist agenda, correctly assuming that once we were in Iraq we couldn't back out without a great loss of face. The invasion itself has eventually become its own rationale and justification, a self-fulfilling prophecy for the defense establishment.

With only a few exceptions, American military involvement since World War II has been in fighting insurgencies, and most of them have come to a less than victorious conclusion for the US. I still have trouble foreseeing an outcome to this situation that reduces terrorism and makes the world safer, let alone Iraq itself.

I'll refrain from using the "V" word, but some of the parallels are there.
 

Craig Johnson
Intermediate Member
Username: Californiacraig

Post Number: 306
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 06:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I much prefer fighting these guys in the middle east than wait for them to come here. If you recall our buddy Saddam was paying people $25,000 to become martyrs. That might not be very much here in the new world but it is a king's ransom to somebody who is destititute with a starving family in the third world.

My friends who are "over there" say the the Iraqis don't believe the US has the balls to enforce peace. It will take a ruthless SOB to restore order in Iraq. We are just a bunch of guys who are playing by our rules and dissapointed the other guys aren't playing by the same rules.
 

Wykowski
Senior Member
Username: Bigearl

Post Number: 1225
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 04:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

GO Eagles
You remember that foul evening when you heard the banshees howl
There was lousy drunken bastards singing 'Billy is in the bowl'
They took you up to midnight mass and left you in the lurch
So you dropped a button in the plate and spewed up in the church

 

Joseph Listan
Intermediate Member
Username: Poonstab

Post Number: 400
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>>I much prefer fighting these guys in the middle east than wait for them to come here.

I love this Red Herring.

If we hadn't gone into Iraq, there would be one helluva lot less people wanting to "come here" to fight.

We proved, between 1776 and 1789, that a determined population, or even a small minority of such, can beat (outlast, rather) the finest army in the world.

The technology has changed, but people haven't. The North Vietnamese and North Koreans proved it again to us. The Afghans proved it again to the Soviets. And it has been proven a hundred times in between.

But I am sure that Bush's, Rumsfeld's, and Wolfowitz' cronies' defense stocks are doing well, and that's all that matters.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 4059
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

GO JOSEPH!!!!!!
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1719
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By the way, Cheney's considerable block of Halliburton stock is currently in a blind trust, but that only means he regains authority over it when he leaves office.

Also, Craig, that "ruthless SOB" it would take to restore order in Iraq sounds an awful lot like Saddam. Wasn't the primary reason given for the invasion to remove him from power?

(Message edited by BillPierce on January 07, 2005)
 

John Shaw
Junior Member
Username: Johns

Post Number: 77
Registered: 08-2003
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unfortunately Joseph, you could name an equal number of "determined populations" who got crushed. Japanese. Confederacy. etc. And it should be pointed out that the successful people all had help - we had the French, the Vietnamese and Koreans had the Soviets and Chinese. And Afghans had the US. Just another demonstration that we need help in Iraq if we're going to be successful.

I also think Craig's fairly accurate. The problem in Iraq (and in Vietnam and Korea come to think of it) is that we're playing by our rules - not theres. We're attempting to impose our will and system of values on a people who don't understand or want it.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1720
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John, I don't see where that help we need in Iraq is going to come from. We have alienated almost all of our traditional allies on this issue.
 

John Shaw
Junior Member
Username: Johns

Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2003
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, completely agree Bill. Just pointing out that people can rarely do it alone - even if they are really determined. And I wouldn't exactly call our efforts determined.
 

Tom12
Junior Member
Username: Tom12

Post Number: 40
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After completing my first semester of my MA course I do haver a better understanding of why Bush is doing what he is doing, I may not agree with it but I can understand the logic of it. Bush sees Iraq as a means to an end, through Iraq he hopes to democratise the whole of the Middle East, the concept is quite interesting and somewhat abstract, I'll post my essay on here next week.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1827
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 02:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd be interested in hearing your theory, Tom. My own opinion is that a nation needs to provide a logical and well-constructed rationale to its people to justify a foreign military involvement that requires the sacrifice of its soldiers. If the underlying reason for the US invasion of Iraq is so abstract that it is apparent only to international affairs scholars and conspiracy theorists, then it seems to me that the justification is questionable.
 

Wykowski
Senior Member
Username: Bigearl

Post Number: 1227
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 02:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"better understanding of why Bush is doing what he is doing"

Because GOD told him to !!!
You remember that foul evening when you heard the banshees howl
There was lousy drunken bastards singing 'Billy is in the bowl'
They took you up to midnight mass and left you in the lurch
So you dropped a button in the plate and spewed up in the church

 

Ken Anderson
Advanced Member
Username: Ken75

Post Number: 598
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1-14-05
 

Ken Anderson
Advanced Member
Username: Ken75

Post Number: 599
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And then there's this:

"Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of 'professionalized' terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank."

The Bushies have brainwashed the Bible-thumpers into forgetting about WMD's, and believing we're in Iraq to fight terrorism. What is wrong with this picture??? Oh wait! Everything is ok, because George has those all-encompassing, good, God-fearing moral values. Schwew, that was a close one.
 

Busted Still Brewery
Advanced Member
Username: Brewlabs

Post Number: 629
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 11:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

most of the good points have chimed in...so i'll give my ill supported political opinion...

bush sucks ASS!!!!
 

Busted Still Brewery
Advanced Member
Username: Brewlabs

Post Number: 630
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh yeah...and ya gotta love how the Bush(gag) administration announced that the hunt for WMD's (which they swore where there) is over...since there ARE NONE!!!!

liars! Makes me fuggin sick!
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 2662
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 11:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, how about the $40 million dollar inauguration? Most expensive ever! Yep, W's a real true blue conservative. I like the way he's sticking the "blue" District of columbia with the security bill. The guy has balls the size of grapefruits.

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