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Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 436
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BAGHDAD, Iraq Saddam Hussein, the iron-fisted dictator who ruled Iraq for nearly a quarter of a century, was found guilty of crimes against humanity Sunday and sentenced to death by hanging.

I can't wait to see how the libs will put a negative spin on this.
Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5989
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jesus, Bob, give it a rest.....WHY would ANYONE spin that? Get over it, man...
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 441
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Give what a rest?

After years of whacko liberals bitching that this was an illegal war and that we were wrong to invade Iraq, it will suddenly be a good thing to execute Saddam?

Sorry libs, you can't have it both ways.
Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5993
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Your liberal baiting routine is getting old and pointless on this one, Bob....
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 443
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So what if I am baiting? It is only pointless to you because libs have no way to bash Bush on it without looking bad.

We were right to take Saddam out of power regardless of what our intelligence leading up to the invasion reported. Liberals conveniently ignore the fact that the U.N. resolutions specifically stated that the burden of proof was on Saddam to PROVE he disbanded his WMD programs. He never did this.

I think that libs owe the world an apology for being flat wrong on their subversion of the Iraq war. Their hatred for Bush has blinded them to the fact that we have troops in a war zone, and when liberals do what they do best, whine, complain, and protest, they do nothing but provide aid and comfort to our enemies with their moral support.

Now the Euro-weenies and their fellow travelers at the New York Times chiming in and are calling for the Iraqis not to hang Saddam. I guess He didn't kill enough of the right kind of people to deserve the death penalty.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L05213396.htm

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/06/061106131346.my2qwtpm.html
Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5996
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"It is only pointless to you because libs have no way to bash Bush on it without looking bad. "...Bob, you are so far off base on this, at least as it concerns me, that I just don't know what to say. You've got yourself so convinced that your stereotypes are true that those of us who don't actually fit them have no place in your belief system.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 444
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny,

Re-read the way I phrased it. I was not calling you a lib personally and I was not accusing you of any of their behaviors. Sorry if you felt I was speaking of you and your personal opinions. that is not what I was trying to do.

Unlike Kerry, I will apologize if I unintentionally offend someone.

"Disagreement is not disrespect."
--Anon
Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5997
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But I AM a lib...maybe even a radical! But that doesn't necessarily mean I fit your stereotype. That's one of my big issues with BOTH sides...whether it's Ann Coulter or Ed Shultz, far too many people are eager to demonize those who disagree with them, instead of looking at common ground and how they could actually get something accomplished by by concentrating on where thety're alike, instead of where they differ.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 446
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well then Denny, when I see any evidence of Liberals looking for common ground, I will back off a bit.

(edited because I called you Dan by mistake. D'oh!)

(Message edited by brewdudebob on November 06, 2006)
Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Ken Anderson
Senior Member
Username: Ken75

Post Number: 1784
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If we pulled out of Iraq, and those whackos over there started dancing in the streets proclaiming victory, I could not care less. I might even laugh. Do we really, as a country, think so little of ourselves that we would let their pathetic posturing bother us? I would hope not.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1344
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ken, if we pulled out of Iraq they would most certainly proclaim victory, and the concerns many of us have about that "victory" have nothing to do with our egos. Do you not have any concerns of that "victory" emboldening them for another 9/11 type attack? I sure do. I can see their thought process already "We kicked their a$$es on our soil, let's take it to them on theirs now"
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3621
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 12:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great Mike, how are we going to prevent failure from happening aside from not "cutting and running?" Staying the course seems to have been put away, but I haven't seen its replacement yet, have you?

--This space is STILL being left intentionally blank.-


 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 449
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 01:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan,

What exactly is your plan?
Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3623
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 04:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Get the copulating out of Iraq while the copulating still just sucks.


Bob, tell us about how wonderful "more of the same" is again.

--This space is STILL being left intentionally blank.-


 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 450
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 04:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3626
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 05:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob says that we should stay the course, brilliant!

--This space is STILL being left intentionally blank.-


 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3475
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 06:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

> I think that libs owe the world an apology for being flat wrong on their subversion of the Iraq war.

Perhaps I am missing something here, but where does the idea come from that this is some kind of success story? Is anyone proud of the result?

> I guess He didn't kill enough of the right kind of people to deserve the death penalty.

What about the people killed in the turbulence of the invasion? Some researchers suggest that more poeple died in the trails of the invasion than due to Saddams dictatorship. So, who do we get to hang for this?

Surely, those who supported the operation will i n my book, be held moraly responsible for any success as well as any failure. Sure some good things happened no doubt, but to what price?

But then again, maybe it wasn't enough ot the right people that was killed, or what was your words Bob :-)

The big question now isn't to kill Saddam or not. We kill Saddam, but that's not where it ends. I personally think we have more use for hime alive. This mess needs to be analyzed more, and I think it's better to keep him alive and let pick his brain and turn the bad into good, and learn something, he is a piece of evidence, I don't see the point in killing hime. As for "punishment", he might suffer more if kept alive.

Secondly a general question, what human beeing, have the right to sentence another human to death? When answering that, remember that the option to killing, is of course not to release him.

/Fredrik
 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 451
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 07:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"This mess needs to be analyzed more"

Fredrik,

Have you ever in your life taken a stand on an issue? Or are you stuck in some parallel universe where all you can do is spin off into a vortex of analysis and never reach a conclusion.


Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Joakim Ruud
Intermediate Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 403
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Denny, why'd you have to let the genie out of the bottle? Everybody was just ignoring Bob's angry ranting, and everything was fine. Now he's been given an opportunity to grandstand and beat his chest some more.

Oh well, I guess I just did the same thing.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3476
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If my choice is a non-motivated premature conclusion, or pursuing further analysis, my choice is clear. Sometimes premature conclusions are forced upong us due to stress. So be it, it happens.

I think we all make premature conclusions all the time, so do I, I'm sure Bush do, and maybe even bad Saddam. But the responsibility of our actions is not lost, it's there and often I think it's shared, in particular with those beeing responsible for maintaining the stress. Analysis and contemplation requires a kind of minimum of peace of mind. This is why I do not like military solutions. The aggressions spreads and it hardly makes people think more clearly.

Why now learn something out of this, for the benefit of a better world? I'm sure Saddam isn't the last one. I'd suggest rip this case into pieces and analyse it do death. And then I mean a multiview analysis. From the point of view of all parties. From US govermernt to the families in iraq, so Saddams brain. What cause this situation, and what could have been done differently to save human life? Was the decisions made, made with all available efforts?

I think we can have better use for him alive at this point. I think we have more "Saddam cases" ahead of us and the prime concern to me at this point is not to cry over what we did or didn't do per see, but I think we should atke the golden opportunity to learn as much as possible of what happend, what caused it, and how it was handled. Also, did it serve it's purpose, whatever it was?

Is the case simple so easy, that Saddam is evil and removing his was the cure? or is there a slight chance that things are a tiny bit more complex?

Why not, seriously let Saddam tell his story, all of it. It's not going to change a damn thing - he will stay in jail. But maybe the rest of use can learn something, and he could pay back some of the damage he has undoutbley done. It would make him more right. It would not make him less guilty. But it may let us in on the logic of "evil" as some call it. And that is valuable and expensive information. Don't pour this infection down the drain without analysis.

/Fredrik
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5998
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Well then Denny, when I see any evidence of Liberals looking for common ground, I will back off a bit."...well, Bob, here's one right in front of you, but you seem like you'd rather stereotype me than engage in a discussion of the facts.

Here's an interesting footnote on this whole situation...according to a couple reports I've heard, the 3 man tribunal that will review the death penalty (according to Iraqi law) includes a Kurd who doesn't believe in the death penalty and is likely to vote against it. The vote must be unanimous for the penalty to proceed. BTW, the Kurds were the victims of Saddam's genocide. Could it be that they're more Christian than we are?
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Jake Isaacs
Intermediate Member
Username: Jake

Post Number: 366
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As a "moderate" who has been lurking around these threads for quite a while, I find it interesting that the majority of the reason, intelligence, and overall level-headedness is so blatantly concentrated on one side of the left-right divide here.

I don't know why it's so (maybe a classic "small dataset" problem), but I'd bet it's clear to most of the non-polarized forum dwellers.

Just an observation. I guess I haven't participated thus far due to reasons that Joakim pointed out in another thread...
 

Mike
Member
Username: Macker

Post Number: 247
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

People that stereotype are all the same.
 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 455
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Again Denny, you are accusing me of something I did not do. I never said "you" when I was describing the liberal agenda.

Being a self-professed liberal, you should know what I "meant" just like everyone should have known what Kerry "meant". So whatever fits your stereotype of me, feel free to paint me as you wish.

And when I was talking of evidence of Liberals looking for common ground, I "meant" in the public arena, not in this forum.

And While we are on the topic of the liberal agenda and common ground, here is the current political backdrop in Atlanta this very day. The Democrats are running an extremely caustic and disgusting radio ad that is racist against white people (a perfectly acceptable liberal tactic). Not much evidence of seeking common ground from Mayor Shirley Franklin, Congressman John Lewis, and Andrew Young.

Here is the transcript:

(Sound of kettle drums, followed by pulsing strings)

LEWIS: This is Congressman John Lewis.

FRANKLIN: And I'm Mayor Shirley Franklin.

YOUNG: And I am Andy Young.

LEWIS: On Nov. 7, we face the most dangerous situation we ever have. You think fighting off dogs and water hoses in the '60s was bad. [Now we] sit idly by, and let the right-wing Republicans take control of the Fulton County County Commission.

FRANKLIN: The efforts of Martin and Coretta King, Hosea Williams, Maynard Jackson and many others will be lost. That's why we must stand up, and we must turn out the vote for the Democrats on Election Day.

YOUNG: And especially for John Eaves for Fulton County Commission chairman. Unless you want them to turn back the clock on equal rights, and human rights and economic opportunity for all of us, vote for John Eaves as Fulton County chairman.

LEWIS: Your very life may depend on it. [all emphasis added]

Unbelieveable! This has got to be one of the most vile and disgusting things ever aired on the radio. This ad seethes with hatred for white people and makes the accusation that if you elect Republicans, blacks will be terrorized and murdered ("Your very life may depend on it"). This ad amounts to a racist hate crime in my book.

So Denny, while you may not be a wing-nut, these people represent the establishment of my local opposition, and unfortunately for you, they are part of the crowd you throw your support behind. And this type of vicious and racist attack is what I have to deal with living in the Atlanta Metro area. So if I come off a little harsh sometimes, perhaps now you can understand why.
Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6003
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob, guilt by association works on both sides of the aisle....
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Bob Wall
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 463
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So you are saying is is o.k. if you do it, but not me?
Give a man a beer and he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6007
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not by any means....I'm saying that if, because I'm a liberal that I'm seen by others to have all the same views as other liberals, the same thing happened to conservatives yesterday. They were seen to all have the same views as Bush, and the American people appear to have had enough of that point of view.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.

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