Topics Topics Help/Instructions Help Edit Profile Profile Member List Register  
Search Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Visit The Brewery's sponsor!
Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * World Expressions * What we need to do now < Previous Next >

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  Start New Thread        

Author Message
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 665
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is not bitch about whose fault this mess is but rather what each of us need to do to prosper.

Whatcha gonna do? This is what we should be talking about.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9314
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 06:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I'm holding on for dear life (no, I'm not buying stocks right now, but neither am I contemplating suicide) and voting for those who understand that regulation is a good thing.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5955
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is change or more of the same. One or the other - no limp wristed middle ground.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5619
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm going to vote for Obama!
 

HEU Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Heu_brewer

Post Number: 421
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps we (the people) can get 350 million back

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5965360&page=2
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 666
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So other than voting none of you are doing anything else?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9318
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 09:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HEU Brewer, this is somewhat off topic, but my sympathy for the executives who profited from these frauds is also nil. I'm still bitter about the collapse of Enron a few years ago. Ken Lay (who said the dead aren't grateful?) escaped any sentence by shuffling off the mortal coil, but Jeff Skilling got off far too easily (he's currently doing time at a minimum security facility in Minnesota).

My punishment for both would have been life (as in permanent) on the street with the stipulation they never have more than $5 on their person and no personal or other property whatsoever. They would be entitled to one meal per day at a soup kitchen, and a place on the floor indoors on nights when the temperature went below freezing, provided they were back on the street by 6:00 am.

Until these people have to pay for their deeds with that kind of punishment they will continue to think they are governed by different rules than everyone else. "Masters of the universe" (Tom Wolfe's term) indeed.
 

HEU Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Heu_brewer

Post Number: 422
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill

When I read the story I swore I felt my heart stop. THe kind of money and power these people make and hold is beyond comprehension.

When the economy is in good shape they make money, when the economy starts to turn bad they make money (shorting), when it economy tanks and their companies go under they give themselves special packages. Its win, win, win all at our expense.

The average American has no idea what they are up against.
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 667
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the market recovered from an 800 point drop to settle at -350 or so. Looks like the market manipulators were in action, set the panic and then bought back in on the cheap.

So what will tomorrow look like?

Bill, what happens to the innocent children of these people if your plan is implemented?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9319
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ron, Ken Lay's adult children paid no price other than the loss of much of their inheritance. The court has ruled that the estate of a deceased defendant (his conviction was technically vacated because his death precluded any appeals) can be sued only for actual rather than punitive damages.

One of Skilling's three children was a teenager at the time of his conviction. He is now attending university on a scholarship.
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 668
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, those are only two examples. What about the worse case scenario under your plan. Are you willing to put those kids on the street too or take them in yourself?
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 669
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"THe kind of money and power these people make and hold is beyond comprehension."

Very true.

"When the economy is in good shape they make money, when the economy starts to turn bad they make money (shorting), when it economy tanks and their companies go under they give themselves special packages. Its win, win, win all at our expense."

The game is rigged in their favor as they control the information and timing of such.

"The average American has no idea what they are up against."

Not quite true. Most if not all Americans have no clue as to what they are up against. Even those that do have a very hard time staying in the race, let alone growing their portfolio.
 

Brewzz
Advanced Member
Username: Brewzz

Post Number: 518
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My thoughts,well,not really MINE....
> > Makes sense to me.
> >
> > Subject: The Birk Economic Recovery Plan
> >
> >
> > I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
> >
> > Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We
> > Deserve It Dividend.
> >
> > To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,00 0 bonafide
> > U.S. Citizens 18+.
> >
> > Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and
> > child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
> >
> >
> > So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals
> > $425,000.00.
> >
> > My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It
> > Dividend.
> >
> > Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
> > So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
> >
> > Every20individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
> > That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
> >
> > But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
> > A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
> >
> > What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
> > Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
> > Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads Put away money for
> > college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to
> > entrepreneurs.
> > Buy a new car - create jobs
> > Invest in the market - capital drives growth Pay for your parent's
> > medical insurance - health care improves Enable Deadbeat Dads to come
> > clean - or else
> >
> > Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
> > who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is
> > cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
> >
> > If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
> > trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( 'vote buy' ) economic incentive that is
> > being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
> >
> > If we're going to do an $85 billion=2 0bailout, let's bail out every
> > adult U S Citizen 18+!
> >
> > As for AIG - liquidate it.
> > Sell off its parts.
> > Let American General go back to being American General.
> > Sell off the real estate.
> > Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
> >
> > Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
> >
> > Sure it's a crazy idea that can 'never work.'
> >
> > But can you imagine the <i>Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
> >
> > How do you spell Economic Boom?
> >
> > I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We
> > Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington
> > DC .
> >
> > And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
> > $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
> >
> > Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
> >
> > Kindest personal regards,
> > Birk
> > T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic
> >
> > PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it's either good for a
> > laugh or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use
> > $85
> > Billion!!
> >
> > >
> >
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Intermediate Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 296
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 12:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Somebody moved a decimal point.
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 670
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Won't work. Someone would have to pay back that $85 Billion and that someone would by you.
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Intermediate Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 298
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 04:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the math!! It's $425. Not $425,000.
 

HEU Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Heu_brewer

Post Number: 423
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 04:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

These people are shameless

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5973452&page=1

Its a different society with different rules. There will never be changes because they control the changes.
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 671
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 04:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kevin, the math doesn't matter, it still won't work. Tax dollars come from the people, giving them back their tax dollars with our current deficit means that we (the people) have to pay it back otherwise the debt grows by another $85 Billion. It is just a loan and we do not need to take out any more loans.

It's like if everyone worked for the Gov. where would the tax dollars come from to pay them?
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 672
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Its a different society with different rules."

And you are just figuring this out? I don't mean that as condescending but it has been that way for most of human history. Kings and Queen were in fact a different society. The Proletariat in the Soviet Union treated themselves to the best of the best while the commoners suffered. Our own Congress and the Senate operate by different rules than what you and I operate under. When they pass laws, they exclude themselves from a lot of those laws.
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Intermediate Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 299
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ron, I do know that, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just pointing out the original post was off by a factor of 1000.


(corrected for typos)

(Message edited by itsfunbrewingbeer on October 07, 2008)
 

HEU Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Heu_brewer

Post Number: 424
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 05:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A place to start

Sentate and House members have 1, 8 year term with the possibility of recalls after 4 and 6 years.

By law anybody serving as any member Congress, The President (including the Cabinet), Vice President or their families (out to 1st cousins) is forever forbiddent to serve as lobbyiest once that person has been sworn in.

The personal finances of Congress, Vice President (and Cabinet), President are frozen (at the dollar amount) the day they are sworn in. If their assests were to increase when they are in office then that increase goes to the "People". If their assets decrease then the "People" should pay the difference.

Congressional members and their staff and families (out to first cousins) are forbidden to accept gifts/dontations, campaign contributions from any lobyiest and their families (out to 1st cousins). Any violation of this will result in removal from office.

The wages for members of Congress should be equal to no more than 1.2 times the average salary of an U.S. worker adjusted annually. Housing should be provided for by "the People" and would comprise of one 3 bedroom apartment per Congressmen. If said Congessmen would like other accomodations then it is to be paid fully at their own expense.

A CEO,CFO or any other person employed by or contracted with a company can never recieve a salery including bonuses and stock options that is more than 20X the lowest paid worker (extrapolated to a 40 hr per week work week) of that company.

No one person can be receive a salary of multiple people (to avoid the above mentioned item). i.e. one person can not be both CEO and CFO so as to obtain a 40X increase in salary over the lowest paid person.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 2023
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a MUCH simpler way to fix it - TERM LIMITS.

Paul Jacobs is my hero:

http://thisiscommonsense.com/
 

HEU Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Heu_brewer

Post Number: 425
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 05:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No Ron I am not just figuring this out.

It needs to be re-emphasized every once in a while.

If this happened at Lehman, AIG, you know it has happend at Countrywide, Bear Stearns, and others.

Oh as far as my above post, any corporations that skirt the 20X rule by locating their corporations overseas, if the person making more than 20X than lowest paid worker the balance of their income is taxable at 100%.

I will give them a break and that the lowest paid worker should be a lowest paid U.S. worker, that way NIKE can continue to use Chinese labor

(Message edited by HEU_Brewer on October 07, 2008)
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5964
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From Paul Jacobs:

"Corrupt Cooking

Can you be kicked out of the government for serving sautéed shad roe?

Prime Minister Samak Sundarave of Thailand has just been ousted by a Thai court for violating the constitution. His crime? Hosting TV cooking shows while in office.

Samak was the host of “Tasting, Grumbling,” and “Touring at 6 a.m.” After becoming premier, he kept doing them for weeks, until finally quitting the shows in response to political outcry.

Samak probably violated Thai law. But I can’t say I’m appalled by the spectacle of someone in the government also holding a legitimate private-sector job. And I don’t think the concept of “appearance of corruption” should be so elastic that it distracts us from recognizing and combating real corruption."

At least he wasn't lying about a blow job!
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6987
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What am I gonna do? Exactly what I've been doing for the last 30 years. I live very frugally, not so much by choice as by necessity...in spite of the fact that I work 2 jobs and my wife works another, the 3 jobs together probably bring in less income than most "normal" jobs alone. Ya know the old blues song line "when ya ain't got nothin', you got nothin' to lose"?
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 673
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 07:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HEU, did you think that up? I like it. The one change I would make is to allow any person to make more than 20X but if they do, their tax rate moves to 90% of any of the income above the 20X.

Denny, I hope you love your jobs because working two of them sucks.
 

HEU Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Heu_brewer

Post Number: 426
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ron

Fair enough 90% above and beyond the 20X rule.



Yes I made it up on while typing hence the typos and edits.

If the 20x rule was implemented then I could imagine what could happen with "corporate profits"

1. Excess profits would return to the company and thus shareholders as dividents or be used for share buybacks

2. The lowest paid worker(s) would get huge raises and could therefore obtain health coverage

3. R&D funds would increase, spinning off additonal jobs


Does anybody see a downside to the 20X rule.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5965
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There would be a mass exodus of corporate executives looking for higher paying positions overseas. I say that like that would be a bad thing.

Independent "consultants" would spring up everywhere. That would be a bad thing.

I would raise it to 40 times the janitor. There simply must be some value in the Dilbert set.

How about if the company goes under, they get paid exactly what the janitor gets.

I will bet that the "fringe benefits" start to become eye popping.

What bothers me is that so-called "compensation boards" are just the "other guys" wink, wink, nod, nod, who do back scratching.
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Intermediate Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 300
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 08:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

40X the janitor won't work, Dan. They'll just hire their wife's younger brother as janitor, pay him $500,000 a year, and still be able to collect $20 million for themselves.
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 674
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For executives to go overseas there would have to be job openings. Not sure if that is the case and then they would have to pay foreign tax rates which make ours look like a bargain.

EU, I think a distinction needs to be made between a private company and a public one. The public one would by law need to adhere to those rules whereas a private company would not. Those rules would be the price a company would need to pay to go public.

However, I like the restriction on politicians more as I think it would separate those who go in for the power and money versus those who go in for the power and public service.

The downside to the 20X rule? Yeah, it will never pass without a revolution. Frankly, I am a little old for one of those.
 

HEU Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Heu_brewer

Post Number: 427
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Independent "consultants" would spring up everywhere. That would be a bad thing"

According to "the plan" the 20X rule applies to consultation. Since you are consluting for a company the you would be benchmarked against the company you are working for. If you consult for multiple companies then it is fractionated based on the time you spend consulting for the company

say you worked 30% for one company (min salary is 30K), 20% for another company (20K) and 50% for yet another company (40K) then the max you could get paid would be


.3 x 30K + .2 x 20K +.5 x 40K = 33K

Max payment = 20 * 33K = 660K

This also would apply to entertainment "stars", pro atheletes, etc.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9324
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 10:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm in nearly complete agreement, but unfortunately the compensation scheme runs counter to human nature. It would be Animal Farm all over again, with "some animals are more equal than others." There would still be some way for athletes and "stars" to make millions. How else can you account for no-talents like Paris Hilton being so successful? Not only was she born rich, but the public seems not to tire of making her even more so.
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 675
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 11:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, the key on HEU ideas on how to hold the politicians accountable. Do that first and worry about the corporations later.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6990
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ron, I don't love the jobs at all. They're simply what I need to do.

Interestingly, my wife, who's a bookkeeper for a VERY large real estate brokerage, was informed that since the market is so lousy, she'll be getting MORE work! They're laying off 20% of the staff and expecting her to make up their work.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 2024
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, my folks spent some time in your neck of the woods this summer. One of the things they mentioned was how out of control the real estate market was there despite the "downturn". They commented that our house in your market would list for at least 2-3x what it's worth here. That's just crazy!
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6991
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, by most indicators, the housing market here is not nearly as expensive as in a lot of other places. I think we're somewhere near the middle, IIRC.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9333
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The beauty of the Internet is that everyone has access to the same information. Here is data for Eugene, Oregon as of August (it's probably a good thing it doesn't reflect the current instability): http://portlandhousing.blogspot.com/2008/09/eugene-rmls-market-action-report-aug ust.html

According to this source, the median Eugene home price is $216,000, down 11 percent from the peak of $243,300 in June 2007. The value of $216,000 is almost exactly the current US median housing price, and hardly "out of control" or "crazy."
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 2027
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure what ads they were looking at, they may have been looking at houses closer to the coast than where you are.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9334
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Looking up this information got me started on some research. Where I currently live, the median home price is now $353,000, an increase of 4.5 percent over a year ago. That's in Canadian loonies, which have been yoyoing against the US greenback lately, as have many of the world's currencies. The Canadian economy is feeling the effects of its close ties with the US, but the bank and credit industry is more highly regulated and the bubble was far more restrained here. The reason for the relatively high prices have to do with the fact the area is considered desirable and the generally higher housing costs and values in Canada (there is no mortgage interest deduction for income taxes).

I'm reminded of the last home my parents purchased (in Michigan) for $10,500 in 1962. At the time our family income was about $15,000. They made about $15,000 in capital improvements (as opposed to maintenance and repairs) and sold the house in 1982 for $42,000, realizing a modest average annual appreciation of 5.4 percent.

Today in that community the median home price is $133,000, a decline of 14 percent from the 2007 peak. Assuming my parents' home was "average" (it was), the continued average annual appreciation is 8.5 percent, reflecting the housing bubble in the beginning and middle of this decade and its collapse last year.

Where I grew up the median family income was $7300 when my parents moved there, and their modest home represented 1.4 years income for the "average family" and only 0.7 years for our family (my father was doing reasonably well) Today the median family income there is $38,000, so that $133,000 home now represents 3.5 years income.

Indeed things have changed.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: