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Brad On Bass
Junior Member
Username: August_west
Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2010
Posted From: 72.88.54.21
| | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 03:24 pm: | 
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http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/10/239780/wisconsin-craft-beer/
Man, I wish I could just write laws for the politicians in my pocket to pass without question. |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 13004
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
| | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 03:50 pm: |
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Aided by members of the Tea Party who were upset with the state government and wanted change, Wisconsin made a major move to the right in last November's election. Very conservative candidates were elected governor and to the the House (the Senate already had a Republican majority).
In the zeal to throttle the influence of unions, state employees and liberal interests, the Tea Party failed to realize that these newly elected officials are solidly in the pockets of large corporate donors who were only too glad to hide behind the call for grassroots changes to the system.
The result is just such legislation that rewards special interests and thwarts the growth of craft breweries in a state that has been traditionally friendly to beer and brewing. |
Steve Pierson
Intermediate Member
Username: Stevepierson
Post Number: 497
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 75.196.152.47
| | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 07:40 pm: |
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Bill - Which specific legislators are in the pockets of large corporate donors? What are their ties to the Tea Party in Wisconsin?
So much legislation nowadays is so long and complex that I wonder if anyone reads through the entire bill. I think the answer is NO in many cases. I am a supporter of the Tea Party in most cases, but if your allegations are true, they screwed the pooch this time. |
Connie
Senior Member
Username: Connie
Post Number: 1627
Registered: 10-2000
Posted From: 98.230.141.204
| | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 08:11 pm: |
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Careful there Steve. Bill is known to be a hard left leaning liberal, so his view may be off a tad  |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 13007
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
| | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 09:07 pm: |
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I thought there was a beer connection, so I indulged my political sentiments a bit in my post. However, for the sake of fairness, I'll continue this discussion in the World Expressions section. |
Steve Pierson
Intermediate Member
Username: Stevepierson
Post Number: 498
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 75.244.255.104
| | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 10:23 pm: |
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quote:Careful there Steve. Bill is known to be a hard left leaning liberal, so his view may be off a tad.
Really, Connie? Bill is a liberal? I hadn't noticed.  |
Josh Vogel
Junior Member
Username: Loopie_beer
Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.214.75
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 12:35 am: |
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This is a really sad story for me. I go to WI at least three times a year (9 hr drive) simply for the craft breweries... (errr I mean family) it has to offer. 
Once again the major conglomerates will ruin things simply by muscling them out rather than getting competitive... sad... |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7743
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 178.76.169.210
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 07:35 am: |
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Which "conservative" here wants to attempt to defend this sort of legislation? |
davidwaite
Senior Member
Username: Davidw
Post Number: 2166
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 209.255.144.129
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 01:40 pm: |
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Josh, don't underestimate the Cheesers love of good beer! |
Brad On Bass
Junior Member
Username: August_west
Post Number: 86
Registered: 11-2010
Posted From: 72.88.54.21
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 07:09 pm: |
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Politics, like many things in life, always seem to start out as a few ideas with good intentions that quickly get hijacked by the extreme elements in either party. The problem with it all is we live in a capitalist society, so it's foolish to expect any person or corporation to act with anything but profit in mind. And, Josh, subversive as it may be, this IS the major conglomerates getting competitive. Just not in the way we'd all like to see it. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7747
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 178.76.169.210
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 09:19 pm: |
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What, no conservative wants to defend the conservative legislation? Not surprising . . . |
Rob Farrell
Advanced Member
Username: Robf
Post Number: 610
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 173.79.54.133
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 01:13 am: |
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No conservative should defend it. As stated in the article, the governor is violating his own principles. Politicians that sell out to the highest bidder are not limited to one political party. |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 7586
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 64.134.221.225
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 03:26 pm: |
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THIS^^^^^ |
Josh Vogel
Junior Member
Username: Loopie_beer
Post Number: 54
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.214.75
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 12:30 am: |
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Well put Brad... well put. Unfortunately they will continue to use their muscle to get competitive rather than venturing out and exploring a better product. Of course, with all the BMC drinkers out there still I doubt that that the loyal followers would buy a craft beer made by AB, Miller, or Coors. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7748
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 178.76.169.210
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 09:24 am: |
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Well it is "informative" to see that the highly self-rightious Teabaggers are not immune from corruption. |
Steve Pierson
Intermediate Member
Username: Stevepierson
Post Number: 499
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 75.220.155.152
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 03:59 pm: |
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Dan - No one has yet provided any information that the Tea Party had anything to do with this legislation. Please provide the documentation for your allegation that the Tea Party supported this legislation. |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 13011
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 05:43 pm: |
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I highly doubt the Tea Party sponsored or endorsed this legislation. My point, though, is that some of the conservative candidates endorsed by the Tea Party received contributions from interests that now have no hesitation to ask for their votes, no doubt for provisions buried deeply in them that are not widely read. |
Steve Pierson
Intermediate Member
Username: Stevepierson
Post Number: 500
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 75.196.145.164
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 07:32 pm: |
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That's the point, Bill. Just because the Tea Party may have supported a candidate does not mean that the Tea Party supports a piece of bad legislation.
The next time I support a candidate who then votes exactly as I would prefer on every legislative matter will be the first time. It is telling, though, how often people try to paint the Tea Party with a broad brush. |
Mike
Advanced Member
Username: Macker
Post Number: 536
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 151.151.109.17
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 08:00 pm: |
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The next time I support a candidate who then votes exactly as I would prefer on every legislative matter will be the first time.
The next time someone agrees with all of my thoughts on every matter it will be the first time. Luckily for all of us, this will always be the case. I cannot imagine a world so homogenous.
As far as painting the Tea Party with a broad brush, I find that similar to the Tea Party broad stroke painting (and villifying) all who disagree with the Tea Party's ideals.
Disclaimer: I am a GDI |
Steve Pierson
Advanced Member
Username: Stevepierson
Post Number: 501
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 75.220.138.193
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 09:41 pm: |
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Mike - you're right. That would be a dull world.
I judge politicians of all stripes by what they do when they are in office. I do not rely on labels and immediately assume that someone is evil because they are a Democrat or a Republican. Painting with the broad brush is not helpful, no matter who is wielding the brush. |
gregory gettman
Advanced Member
Username: Gregman
Post Number: 752
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.235.5.198
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 06:48 am: |
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Should this be moved to world expressions? |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 13012
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 02:09 pm: |
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Yes, I moved this to World Expressions.
The point I was trying to make is that the Tea Party advocates the end of government as usual and seeks to limit the influence of special interests. They were quite successful in last November's off-year elections in a number of states, including Wisconsin. Many of these newly elected governors and legislators actively sought and received the Tea Party's support.
At the same time, some of these special interests have seen this as a way of extending their control by making significant contributions to Tea Party organizations and their candidates, often through third parties where the connections are not so clear. It would be naive to think the influence peddling in government has been significantly reduced, and not at all surprising to see provisions such as this one appear in legislation.
It's not my intent to paint the Tea Party with a broad brush, apart from mentioning there is a certain naiveté about this issue on the part of some it its members. I will also acknowledge that this has also occurred with other special interests and liberal candidates. Money is the mother's milk of politics, and so far we seem to be unable or unwilling to significantly do anything about it.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the Tea Party. I've long believed the middle class has been given short shrift for at least the past 30 years, and that our economic and political system has increasingly been dominated by the interests of the very wealthy at the expense of everyone else. I differ to some extent with the Tea Party's belief that limiting government will solve the problem. |
Steve Pierson
Advanced Member
Username: Stevepierson
Post Number: 503
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2011 - 01:32 am: |
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I agree - you can't count on any politician to follow through on the positions that they take during their campaigns. You have to watch them all the time after they are elected.
You make a good point about money in politics. In my mind, that is exactly why government needs to be as small and as locally controlled as possible. It's easier to keep an eye on things that happen locally as opposed to the hijinks in state capitols and D.C. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7750
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2011 - 01:46 am: |
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During the era of "Boss Politics" there was a very high degree of local control . . . |
Jim DeShields
Member
Username: Niquejim
Post Number: 196
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 12:30 am: |
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While I don't really like this law.(I'm Libertarian, not conservative so I can't reply to earlier posts) Let's look at this a bit less slanted
http://volokh.com/2011/06/10/wisconsins-war-on-craft-brewers/
It would also seem less hostile
http://www.openmarket.org/2011/06/06/wisconsin-proposal-hurts-craft-beer-protect s-big-brewers/
"While the text of the measure has not been made available to the public yet, the proposal would reportedly remove brewers’ current right to own wholesaler and retail licenses.Brewers of less than 300,000 barrels annually will still be able to self-distribute, |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7751
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 01:54 pm: |
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Read the rest of the text. |
World Expressions