Topics Topics Help/Instructions Help Edit Profile Profile Member List Register  
Search Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Visit The Brewery's sponsor!
Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2005 * Archive through January 11, 2005 * Corn syrup instead of flaked Maize? < Previous Next >

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
 

Leland Dunn
Junior Member
Username: Doonshiner

Post Number: 52
Registered: 09-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 12:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wanted to make a Negra Modelo clone but I forgot my recipe when I got to the LHBS. I got everthing except the flaked corn. Can I use corn syrup instead? I didn't want to use much, maybe 1/2 lb. for 10 gal. batch. Would it do basically the same thing by fermenting really clean? Should I just skip the adjuct option all together?
 

David Woods
Intermediate Member
Username: Beericon

Post Number: 467
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 12:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not really up on the corn syrup scene, but most of the commercial stuff has sulphates in them (read anti-fementation stuff)!!!

Please read the label or call the company before using the stuff.

Exactly what brand did you plan on using, there is a lot of info online about additives.

David
 

Dave Witt
Advanced Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 624
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 01:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Leland,

Why not do a cereal mash? You could use corn meal, available at your local grocery store, and cheap, too. Adds maybe a half hour to your brew session.

I can't say enough about the effect that the one cereal mash I have done had on my beer. I was quite impressed.

OTOH, you only want a 1/2# for a 10 gal batch, so, you probably wouldn't bother.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1691
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 01:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not aware of sulfates (or sulfites, which I think is what David means) in corn syrup. The brands sold in supermarkets can contain other preservatives, however, as well a small amount of vanilla. There is industrial corn syrup used as sweetener for soft drinks; I know of brewpubs that use this when making sodas and brewing certain beers.

Corn syrup contributes fermentables, increasing the alcohol without increasing body, but it adds virtually no flavor. In that regard it's without the slightly "corny" flavor you are probably seeking for your beer. A better choice would be corn meal or corn grits, but these would require a cereal mash by boiling with a small quantity of base malt before being added to the main mash for conversion.
 

gregory gettman
Intermediate Member
Username: Gregman

Post Number: 374
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 01:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

DAve said..........."I can't say enough about the effect that the one cereal mash I have done had on my beer. I was quite impressed."

Why? What was it about the flavor or effect that was so good? I'm curious............

greg
 

David Woods
Intermediate Member
Username: Beericon

Post Number: 470
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 02:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not aware of sulfates (or sulfites, which I think is what David means) in corn syrup. Oooops on the sulfites-sulfates thing.

Bill, you said, "but these would require a cereal mash by boiling with a small quantity of base malt before being added to the main mash for conversion" Wouldn't boiling kill all the reasons for adding base malt? Or should you add the base malt after boiling and the temp has gone down to the 150F's????

David

David
 

Dave Witt
Advanced Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 625
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 03:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Greg,

I'd say it was about that "corn sweetness" it gives the beer @ 15% or 20% corn. The corn seemed to come out much more (in a good way) than when I used flaked maize in a cream ale one time. Also, when doing the cereal mash, when you mash in, its kind of sticky, gooey, til the enzymes break down some of the starch.

David,

You mash in around 150-156F and rest for 5-10 min, then raise to boiling and boil for at least 20 min.
 

Brandon Dachel
Senior Member
Username: Brandon

Post Number: 1375
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 03:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

> Wouldn't boiling kill all the reasons for
> adding base malt?

Boiling will denature the enzymes in the malt, yes. However there are (edit) plenty of enzymes in the rest of your mash to overcome this.

The base malt is added strictly for mechanical reasons. The cereal mash is like trying to boil paste. It's a sticky mess. The base malt simply helps to make is a bit more viscous.

Try doing it without adding some base malt. Then let us know how long it takes to clean the scorched mess out of the kettle.

(Message edited by brandon on January 06, 2005)
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 2645
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 05:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Back to the original question, if you live anywhere near a specialty foods store or a rather large supermarket, chances are they sell instant polenta. I pick mine up at an Italian food market/deli and I live in Montana, so I would assume that instant polenta is darn near everywhere. And it gets you that nice corn flavor that goes so well in CAPs/CACAs.
 

Craig Henry
Member
Username: Sail

Post Number: 125
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why not just use corn starch? Maybe there isn't the same amount of flavor?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1696
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Refined corn starch is lacking in flavor. I'd recommend corn meal, grits or polenta if I couldn't obtain flaked maize.

(Message edited by BillPierce on January 06, 2005)
 

Jake Virnig
Junior Member
Username: Nwbrewer

Post Number: 36
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 06:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So can polenta just be substituted for flaked corn?

Jake
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1701
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "instant" polenta can be mashed with the rest of the grains, just like flaked maize. It is pre-gelatinized. Regular polenta (and corn meal and corn starch) is not gelatinized and requires a cereal mash.