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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2005 * Archive through September 22, 2005 * Stepping up yeast starter < Previous Next >

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Tex Brewer
Junior Member
Username: Texbrewer

Post Number: 51
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.62.203.81
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is an appropriate procedure for making and stepping up a starter? For example:
1) Water:DME ratio
2) Boil time
3) Volume of initial starter
4) Time and temperature for initial starter to be ready
5) How to step up. How much additional boiled water/malt can be added to what size starter?
6) More aeration when stepping up?
7) What gets discarded and what gets pitched into the wort?
8) Starter volumes for ales vs. lagers.
I'm sure there's a great article out there someone can refer me to.
 

Nick Zeigler
Member
Username: Ziggy

Post Number: 167
Registered: 09-2003
Posted From: 148.244.229.231
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1) To make 1.045
2) 5 minutes
3) 10x volume of initial yeast source.
4) Till its fermented out (1.005-1.010) at the projected fermentation temperature of your beer.
5) 10x each time. eg, 10ml -> 100ml -> 1000ml (for starter wort)
6) Aerate starter using air, not O2. Apparently this is better for the yeasties. Fredrik mentions bursts every hour with O2, but I've heard of constant aeration (NOT oxygenation) for starters as being good.
7) You can pitch the whole mess in, but for larger starters (1 Gallon +) I decant and discard the majority of the spent wort, leaving only enough to stir up the yeast to pitch.
8) Same.
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1269
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

Have you looked at John Palmers Site?

Try here. Good Stuff: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

This is also a decent link: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A//www.ebrew.com/primarynew s/yeast_starter_beer.htm&ei=CpggQ-vtBoeU-gH5tZyxDg


-Scott
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 3449
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is not universal agreement about all of the above, but allowing for individual opinion and technique, I woudln't greatly differ with Ziggy. As with many other aspects of brewing, there is some room for you to develop what seems to work best for you.

Lagers benefit from an increased pitching rate compared to ales, but the starter process is not greatly different.
 

Geoff Buschur
Advanced Member
Username: Avmech

Post Number: 900
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 205.174.22.28
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

I'm not trying to be a smart arse, this is my technique.

Go to Kroger and buy a 6 pack of Malta Goya for $3.

Pour one bottle into growler. Fill bottle half full with water and pour it into growler. Pitch yeast. Aerate well.

1-2 days later when activity slows pour two bottles of Malta Goya into growler. Fill one bottle full of water and pour it into the growler. Aerate well.

When activity slows place yeast into refrigerator. Decant beer before pitching.

If you are making a lager add the last 3 bottles of Malta Goya after decanting. Fill one and a half bottles of water and add it to the growler. Aerate well.

Chill and decant before pitching.
"I've been drunk for 14 years...my judgment isn't what it used to be."

~Woody Harrelson as Roy Munson in Kingpin
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1270
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.61.120.214
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Now,

I have to agree and say that Geoff Buschurs method works just dandy like.

I have made many a beer with yeast starters made in the above fashion.

-Scott
 

Steve Pierson
Member
Username: Stevepierson

Post Number: 221
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 209.161.26.246
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 08:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have recently started using Dominick Venezia's method detailed in the article below. Works well for me.

http://www.primetab.com/yeaststarter.html
None of us knows more than all of us. - Bill Herzog
 

Kurt Schweter
Member
Username: Kschweter

Post Number: 142
Registered: 07-2002
Posted From: 71.107.8.153
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

if you make them close to the style you want to brew, why not pitch the whole darn starter -
 

Randy McCord
Intermediate Member
Username: Mccord

Post Number: 405
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 216.174.177.183
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 02:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I recall someone on this board used to make their starters with apple juice. Never tried it, but may some day.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 3455
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 02:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The sugar and nutrient composition of apple juice is somewhat different than malt. It's not greatly so, but in general I'd want to acclimate the yeast to something close to the intended environment of the wort it ultimately will be fermenting.
 

Fred Bonjour
New Member
Username: Bonjour

Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.14.60.55
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 02:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One of the best articles on yeasts I've seen

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php
http://beerdujour.com/AwardWinningRecipes.htm
 

Bill Moore
Intermediate Member
Username: Bill_beerman

Post Number: 343
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 63.145.150.3
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fred,
Great link.
It would be a good link to have in FAQ.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 3624
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 71.37.187.47
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 03:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would like to point out that if you live in a state that is 99.9% caucasians and native americans, there is zero chance of buying Malta Goya at the grocery store. It is not the final answer to starters.
 

Nick Zeigler
Member
Username: Ziggy

Post Number: 168
Registered: 09-2003
Posted From: 148.244.229.231
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shite, when you live in a country that is 99.9% Mexicans its STILL hard to find. I'm thinking its more of a DR and PR thang.
 

ScottDeW
Intermediate Member
Username: Scott

Post Number: 374
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 63.174.45.1
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Man,

That stuff is EVERYWHERE down here.

It is good stuff to use for starters. I'd heard there was a lighter variety as well. Malto Goya is very dark. I've yet to find the lighter stuff in stores.

(Message edited by scott on September 09, 2005)
Scott
http://texanbrew.com
 

Bob Boufford
Intermediate Member
Username: Bobb

Post Number: 270
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 68.149.174.16
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After making the starter, what can be done with the starter if the brew day gets delayed a week due to work or family issues? I assume just putting the flask or jug w/ airlock into the refrigerator would be fine. How long can it keep before it may need refreshing or dumping and starting over?
 

Richard Nye
Advanced Member
Username: Yeasty_boy

Post Number: 896
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 68.225.248.227
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob:
This is what I do, and I get starts in 2 - 4 hours consistently and clean ferments. I usually start my starters 1 - 3 weeks before brew day.

1. I grow up a starter to between 1 and 2 quarts on a stir plate using the methods outlined above.

2. I chill the starter in a flask with aluminum foil over the mouth at the closest temperature to freezing I can get.

3. I'll leave it chilled for 1 day to 2 or 3 weeks. I don't worry much about wild beasts in it because it's cold and the environment isn't bacteria friendly.

4. On morning of brew day I take the starter out of the fridge and decant the liquid off the top and let the yeast warm up to room temperature.

5. Then I add about a pint of fresh wort to the yeast when I start to brew.

6. By the time the yeast are ready to pitch, they're very active.

7. I oxygenate the wort with O2 and a stone for about a minute per 5 gal then pitch the yeast.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 3461
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wouldn't worry if you pitch the starter within two weeks. Merely refrigerate it and use it when you brew. If longer than that, take it out of the refrigerator and add a pint or two of wort on the morning of or the night before your brew day. If it's more than a couple of months old, make a new starter with the yeast sediment.
 

Bob Boufford
Intermediate Member
Username: Bobb

Post Number: 271
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 68.149.174.16
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Richard and Bill, Thanks very much for the input. The work situation (and weather) has been such lately that I've been having to put planned brew sessions on hold many times lately. This is information that is usually not included with starter how-to's.

This thread is definitely a keeper. :-)
 

tranquil_liza
Intermediate Member
Username: Tranquil_liza

Post Number: 251
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 69.245.109.200
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 09:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i agree with richard. when you feed the starter the morning of brew day and have it churning by pitching time....you're gonna get a faster start.