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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2005 * Archive through September 22, 2005 * Stange spice flavor in a Hefe < Previous Next >

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Scott Manning
Junior Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet

Post Number: 43
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 12.18.36.40
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I made a hefe the other day and pitched a slurry of 3068 WEIHENSTEPHAN YEAST
The notes on it said the following.
Produces a spicy wheat character, rich in clove, vanilla, and banana. Low flocculation, attenuation: 73-77%.

spice but - this is over the top , and it is compounded with a peppery aftertaste. All one can taste is spice in this beer. No hops, no earthy wheat - just SPICE. There is a very mild clove and banana aroma to it but you really have to get in close for that. Anyway - wondering how to fix it (kegged in a corny). One side note it was extremely hot when I brewed so it fermented in the high 70's and probably swung into 80-82 degrees.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 3457
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 01:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most German wheat beer strains, and especially the Weihenstephan yeast, are very temperature sensitive. At 63-65 F they tend to favor clove phenolics; as the fermentation temperature increases to about 68 F there is a balance of clove phenolics with banana esters. Above 70 F the esters (including the peppery character you mention) are very pronounced, to the point where most people find them overwhelming if the beer is fermented above 73-74 F.

So what you report is very typical for this strain. Apart from blending the beer with another batch brewed with a neutral strain, there is not much you can do. For some strains, the fermentation temperature is critical.
 

Scott Manning
Junior Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet

Post Number: 44
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 12.18.36.40
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe I could do a couple of gallons of a mini mash - with some DME and steep with the wheat and other specialty grains. And ferment it with a yeast with a neutral profile.

Maybe that will help mellow the spice.
 

Richard Nye
Advanced Member
Username: Yeasty_boy

Post Number: 893
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 65.218.192.240
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill's completely correct. I like the clove/banana balance in hefe's so I ferment at 66-68. You have to control the 3068 ferment temperatures very carefully.

I've also found that the banana flavor tends to fade with time faster than the clove. I like my hefe's pretty fresh, within about 3-5 weeks after pitching the yeast.
 

Aaron Meyer
Member
Username: Meyeaard

Post Number: 232
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.229.233.170
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You mention steeping with wheat - you'll want that in the mini-mash unless you're using crystal wheat malt...
 

David Woods
Advanced Member
Username: Beericon

Post Number: 653
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 4.186.75.11
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 01:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Above 70 F the esters (including the peppery character you mention) are very pronounced..."

Sounds like a good beer to use on some experimental Belgian brews at high temps!!!

David
 

Kenny Reed
Member
Username: Ken

Post Number: 140
Registered: 12-2002
Posted From: 65.0.166.223
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 03:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had a 65 "stang" convertible... dumbest thang I ever did, selling that one!
 

Scott Manning
Junior Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet

Post Number: 45
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 12.18.36.40
Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

this is odd -
the pepper/spice is now almost gone!!!! very small hints of banana - still a lot of clove but something just isn't right with the finish - it is hard to explain but it sort of coats your tongue like cough syrup - leaving a film sensation. if it were not for this film it would be a decent beer for something that went horribly wrong. any ideas on what could be contributing to the film sensation.
 

Richard Nye
Advanced Member
Username: Yeasty_boy

Post Number: 904
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 68.225.248.227
Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scott, what was your recipe?
 

Steve Sampson
Member
Username: Sampsosm

Post Number: 147
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.137.246.76
Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aren't fusel alcolhols a problem at higher temps? I've fermented beers too hot, and they have been pretty nasty, i'm not sure if I would describe it as cough syrup, but nasty none the less.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 3471
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 01:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, fusels are another consequence of a high fermentation temperature, although this is less of a problem with some strains (Belgians, for example).
 

Scott Manning
Junior Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet

Post Number: 47
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 12.18.36.40
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

well the beer really isn't like cough syrup itself - just gives more of a sensation of cough syrup coating on the tongue.

my recipe was
* 8 lbs. Durst wheat malt
* 6 lbs. Briess 6-row
* 1 lb lbs. Carapils
* 1 lb. Durst Munich
a little bit of crystal for added color

Mashed in 3 gal. water to 140 = rest for 30 min
Boosted to 158 with 1.5 gal of boiling water= rest for 30 min
mashed out at 176
collected 9.5 gal of water. in one hour
fwh with pearle
hop additions included halletaur hersbrucker
finsihed with pearle

fermented 8 gallons for a week - transferd to 1/4 bbl sankey - and forced carbonated.

1.050 OG

pitched 1L slurry of 3068 WEIHENSTEPHAN
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 3482
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nothing seems greatly amiss other than the high fermentation temperature. The Carapils malt and high saccharification rest temperature will result in quite a bit of body. Most hefeweizens use only restrained bittering hops. The style really is not about hop flavor and aroma.
 

Scott Manning
Junior Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet

Post Number: 48
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 12.18.36.40
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would have normally used Saaz - for the bittering but the online store i bought it from sent me pearle by mistake.

there really is not much of a hop presence at all.
must have disipated with the extra spice.