Topics Topics Help/Instructions Help Edit Profile Profile Member List Register  
Search Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Visit The Brewery's sponsor!
Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2006 * Archive through January 20, 2006 * FG reading 1.005 unusual? Abnormally low? < Previous Next >

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
 

Scott Morales
Junior Member
Username: Smutty

Post Number: 63
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 208.252.62.130
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey guys,

an IPA had an OG of 1.056 and a FG of 1.005. I discussed this with a buddy of mine and he said my hydrometer should be calibrated b/c the FG seems unusually low and that attenuation would have to be in the 90%-tile for that to occur.
Any thoughts on this? I'll calibrate tonight and see. Just curious too see what others think.

TIA
Scott
 

Tom Gardner
Advanced Member
Username: Tom

Post Number: 740
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 162.119.240.105
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 03:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What was your recipe (? mash temp), yeast (? starter) and aeration/oxygenation technique? Was this the same hydrometer before and after and temperature corrected? T
 

Scott Morales
Junior Member
Username: Smutty

Post Number: 64
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 208.252.62.130
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here you go:

16 lbs german pils
2 lbs vienna
1 lb carapils
1 lb crystal 20

- mashed in 6 gal of water strike 155F, 60 min later 153F
- vorlauf
- ran until wort was about an inch above grain bed
then added another 6 as a batch
- rest for about 45 min
- then sparged for about 90 min @initial sparge temp of 168F

- boil 60 min

used WY1056

Same hydrometer used for both OG and FG.

Scott
 

Scott Morales
Junior Member
Username: Smutty

Post Number: 65
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 208.252.62.130
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, forgot. I went right on a yeast cake from a previous IPA, that used 1056
 

Doug Pescatore
Senior Member
Username: Doug_p

Post Number: 1733
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 141.232.1.1
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scott,
Check your hydrometer in 60F water. If it is not 1.000 you can use the diference as an adjustment.

1.005 is very low, but not unheard of.

I had a beer go from 1.105 to 1.002 once.

-Doug
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2850
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 62.20.8.114
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It translates into a real degree of fermentation of around 75%. That is higher than I would have guessed, but definitely on the side that's theoretically possible even not accounting infections and other explanations.

But if this was a game I would place my bet on something out of the ordinary (measurement errors, infections ...). Even accounting for the fact that you pitch an antire yeast cake and might have a "full" attenuation, the implications of wort fermentability sounds high (but still possible) for that mash scheduele. What crush are you using? Any stirring? etc?

/Fredrik
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 1943
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.38
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I typically ferment down to 1.004-1.008 when pitching on an ale yeast cake on a 1.060 or lower OG, as a data point. I like drier beers though. You could lower you fermentation temp about 5 degrees as well.

Let us know which IPA you end up liking more!
 

damon
Member
Username: Nomad

Post Number: 182
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 141.211.186.200
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Reusing an entire yeastcake but not increasing the gravity on the next batch (second, third, etc.) is a definite recipe for attenuation that high. I'd put money on your hydrometer being fine or at most a point or two off. Believe it or not, there is such a thing as over-pitching! I've done it and results just like yours, Scott.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 4370
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, such attenuation is possible but not very likely given the data you report. I also suspect your hydrometer. Check yours in water at 60 F or borrow another one. Also, make sure that the beer is decarbonated (pour the sample back and forth a few times and let it sit for about 5 minutes) so that CO2 bubbles do not affect the reading.
 

davidw
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 1387
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 65.163.6.62
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just kegged a 10 gallon batch of IIPA last night. OG 72, IBU's 90 (calculated) all FWH'ed. The grist bill was 80% 2 row, 10% dark Munich, 10% carapils. Mashed @ 150 degrees F. Pitched 2 packages of US56, aerated with O2, then 4 hours later aerated again. It was fermented in the basement for 35 days @ 60 degrees and racked from the primary fermenter directly into the kegs. The final gravity: 1.012.

I believe that is right at 83% apparent degree of attenuation. I attribute the high attenuation to adequate yeast numbers pitched, the second aeration, and probably to some degree the period of time in the primary. Similarly my altbiers typically attenuation in the 80-85% range, even with Wyeast 1338. When tasting the hydrometer sample the body was not thin (carapils) and the over all balance was right where I wanted it. Anxious for it to be carbed.

This is just one brewers observation/experience.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 4373
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davidw, your results do not seem out of line to me. US56 is an active strain and a good attenuator, your saccharification temperature was relatively low and you aerated the wort well.
 

Scott Morales
Junior Member
Username: Smutty

Post Number: 66
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 208.252.62.130
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll calibrate tonight and take another reading when I'm ready to keg (don't want to open it up more than it needs to) and report back.

Interesting stuff,
Scott
 

davidw
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 1389
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 65.163.6.62
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Which was exactly my point, Bill.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 4376
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wasn't disagreeing with you, merely adding emphasis. You're entirely correct.
 

davidw
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 1390
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 65.163.6.62
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Didn't take it as you disagreeing, Bill, I was just adding emphasis to your reply.
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 1944
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.38
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

uh.....heh....heh......what?

I'll say again I think the hydrometer is fine and that 90%+ attenuation on a 1.060 or less brew is very realistic.

Scott, was 1.056 about what you were shooting for? (too lazy to plug numbers in)...
 

Scott Morales
Junior Member
Username: Smutty

Post Number: 67
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 208.252.62.130
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hophead,
if I remember right, ProMash had estimated about 1.053, so pretty close.
 

Tom Gardner
Advanced Member
Username: Tom

Post Number: 743
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 162.119.240.105
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The yeast cake of 1056 can surely ferment down more than usual. You might check your thermometer calibration too. If you accidentally mashed at lower than 150 that would help fermentability too. T
 

Michael
Advanced Member
Username: Hoppop

Post Number: 745
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 65.82.104.120
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>>>Just kegged a 10 gallon batch of IIPA last night. OG 72, IBU's 90 (calculated) all FWH'ed. The grist bill was 80% 2 row, 10% dark Munich, 10% carapils. Mashed @ 150 degrees F. Pitched 2 packages of US56, >>>>

US56 is almost too attenuative in my experience; I have had it take 1.060 batches mashed in the mid-150's (no adjuncts) down to 1.008 (and, I do not aerate, unless sloshing the carboy to it's final fermenting place counts). I like this yeast, but it does tend to munch through the wort like Nottingham.

Anyone know if this is, indeed, THE 1.056 strain?
 

Marty Michael
New Member
Username: Carwash

Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 156.152.45.91
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For what it is worth, I had one of my first all grain beers ferment down to 1.004 with 1056 and it alarmed me as well. And well, to be honest, I was not very happy with the beer either. I had two problems. One, I was just lerning my system and my efficiency was off so I missed my malt bill numbers to start with. Two, my thermometer needed to be calibrated so I had accidentally mashed in the upper 140's somewhere. I suspect either your thermometer or hydromemter is out of whack, most likely the thermometer if it is not the "old fashioned" kind. Only other time I got that low I had a fermentation that would not quit and what turned out to be a bacterial infection (my only one ever). Bacteria can eat the dextrins right out of your beer.
 

Marty Michael
New Member
Username: Carwash

Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 156.152.45.91
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, also I recently made a brown ale with a starting gravity of 1.060 that fermented down to 1.013 with US-56 but I fermented at around 68-70 degrees farenheit. So it is possible to not attentuate too much with that strain I guess at the higher temperatures. I just pitched it right on top of the foam without rehydrating.
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 1947
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.38
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 09:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"So it is possible to not attentuate too much with that strain I guess at the higher temperatures."

Now that I would not believe, not one little bit... :-)
 

don price
Advanced Member
Username: Donzoid

Post Number: 826
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 24.94.123.141
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 12:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How about 1.058 to 1.005? Schwarzbier...93% pilsner malt, mashed overnight at 150F, pitched on Nottingham cake, and fermented at about 55-58F. Yeah, I smashed the hydrometer later that day to punish it for not reading 1.010 like most other beers.

Don
 

Michael
Advanced Member
Username: Hoppop

Post Number: 750
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 69.132.121.114
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 03:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, I will give you a few +points from my latest Pilsner that has been chugging away at 53f for 2.5 weeks...OG was 1.052...took a gravity reading tonight, @ 1.022. .

Don't make many lagers...now, I guess I know why. I suppose I should have kicked up the gallon starter (wlp800).
 

Doug Pescatore
Senior Member
Username: Doug_p

Post Number: 1735
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 68.64.185.27
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 03:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Michael,
Let it ride. Lagers can take a long time to finish. 2.5 weeks is still less than my minimum before I even check the gravity for a lager.

-Doug
 

Michael
Advanced Member
Username: Hoppop

Post Number: 751
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 65.82.104.120
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doug - Cool...thanks...guess I got used to US-56 blasting through things in a few days.
 

John Ferens
Junior Member
Username: John_ferens

Post Number: 60
Registered: 05-2003
Posted From: 192.104.24.222
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I haven't had either Nottingham or US-56 "attenuate too much," maybe it's my water (Pittsburgh filtered tap). My last session, a Pale Ale:

All grain mashed at 152,
Grain bill: Pale Ale Malt=82%, Crystal 60=11%, Munich=7%
OG=1.060 - 5 gallons of wort, lots of O2
2 11gram packs of US-56
FG=1.016

I actually thought it would go lower.

John.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5335
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whenever I get unusually high or low attenuation, the first thing I look at is my thermometer, not the hydrometer. If your thermometer is off, you could be mashing at a much different temp than you attend, leading to a much different dextrin profile in the wort.
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Beertracker
Senior Member
Username: Beertracker

Post Number: 1009
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 207.155.34.42
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I once had a Strawberry Wheat Ale go to 0.998, so 1.005 doesn't seem low at all!
CHEERS! Beertracker

"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers

 

Brad Petit
Junior Member
Username: Voodoobrew

Post Number: 58
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.22.44.244
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would that reading have been post-fruit addition beertracker? If so, sounds like all that extra sugar made for a rather alcoholic beer. How did it taste?
 

Beertracker
Senior Member
Username: Beertracker

Post Number: 1013
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 207.155.34.42
Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 05:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It was taken post-fermentation with a precision bottling hydrometer. For some reason, the fructose really made the yeast go schizo on that batch? No worries though...as I simply added some fruit juice to sweeten and served it to many satisfied female fans at a local beer festival.

(Message edited by beertracker on January 12, 2006)
CHEERS! Beertracker

"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers

 

Scott Morales
Junior Member
Username: Smutty

Post Number: 73
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.234.68.13
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey guys, I finally got some time to run the test if anyone is still interested. Both my thermometer and hyrdrometer are correct. I first calibrated the thermometer with an electric redi-fork I used for bbq and it was correct, I then got the water down to 60F(the most challenging part of the test) and tested the hydrometer and it was 1.0000 on the button.

Anyway, thanks for all the info it's appreciated.
Scott
 

damon
Member
Username: Nomad

Post Number: 184
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.129.94.153
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 07:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So who owes me money? Again, believe it or not, over-ptiching can and does happen.

I had the same thing happen to me Scott, and the single digit gravity was not from instrument error. It was from downsizing in batch volume, barely raising gravity, all while re-using a yeastcake, just like you did.

Its not always about gadget re-gadgetration!

(Message edited by nomad on January 15, 2006)