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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2006 * Archive through March 09, 2006 * Partigyle question < Previous Next >

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Graham Cox
Intermediate Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 407
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.248.92
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm brewing a Doppelbock today and it occurred to me that I could make a small beer out of all that grain.

I'll be mashing in a cooler. I am planning to use the no-sparge method for the Doppelbock.

Now, my questions are these: Given 19.2 pounds of grain for a 5.5 batch, what do you think I'll have left to work with in terms of gravity for the small beer? What efficiency should I anticipate with my primary batch? (I normally batch sparge and average about 65% with that much grain, and 70-75% with a more "normal" beer.) Thanks in advance.
 

Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 1003
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 217.44.52.121
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

as a rule of thumb you should get 56% of the extract in the first runnings. So in theory you'll have an effeciency of 36%.

By my very rough calculation you'll only get about 1.050 from your first runnings, and if you sparge to collect the same volume of second runnings you'll get about 38.

I think you'll get about 10% more extraction than 65% when you parti-gyle and probably you'll end up with about 55 and 43ish on each split with that grist.

I'd sparge a bit for the dopplebock, then sparge the lighter runnings and suppliment it with a little honey.
 

Paul Erbe
Intermediate Member
Username: Perbe

Post Number: 452
Registered: 05-2001
Posted From: 12.27.22.67
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MAtt - where does the 56% come from and can that value be changed based on how thick the mash is?
 

Greg Beron
Advanced Member
Username: Gberon

Post Number: 510
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 71.104.219.49
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, this article will help you: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

By the way, while I've brewed intentional parti-gyles several times, I recently brewed an impromptu version similar to the one you're trying. The first beer was a Barley Wine and I combined the grain from two mash tuns into one, added about a pound of crystal, then filled it with sparge water and left it overnight. In the morning I brewed a California Common with the runoff, plus a little sparge water. It's turned out to be a nice beer.

Good luck with yours.
Greg Beron
Culver City Home Brewing Supply
www.brewsupply.com
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 2503
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.215.203.195
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I have done parti-gyle brews, I monitor the volume and temperature corrected gravity of the runnings until I hit the number of gravity points needed for the first brew and then just run out the second brew to 1.010 corrected gravity. This is for fly sparging. I doubt that anything as accurate could be worked out for batch sparging.

Dan

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Graham Cox
Intermediate Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 408
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.248.92
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, guys!

Fortunately, I've got some DME on hand should it become necessary. The Doppelbock is the main project, of course, and I'm not going to compromise on it to help out the second, bonus beer. I'll monkey with the small beer if there is any monkeying to be done.

Incidentally, I'm going to make the small beer a pseudo-British ale.
 

Tom Gardner
Advanced Member
Username: Tom

Post Number: 768
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 72.254.1.203
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 11:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Graham, What mash ratio will you be using? What batch size are you shooting for? When no-sparging, a common mistake it to overestimate the volume of your runnings.

"The way I do it": 1st runnings of 1.1 qt/lb will give an o.g. of 1.095-100's. 1.25 qt/lb o.g. is 1.085-90's, and 1.6 qt/lb 1.080's. Remember that your grain will absorb 0.5 qt/lb. So if you are mashing at 1.25 qt/lb you'll get only 0.75 qt/lb of first runnings. For 5 gallons (=20 qts) into the fermenter you'll need 20/0.75 = 26.66 lb of grain.

I usually get about 50% o.g. for the second runnings. Right now I'm enjoying a 70/- while the Wee Heavy ages.

Enjoy, Tom
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 4764
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 01:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom's data is in line with my experience. I'd say they are good ballpark figures.
 

Graham Cox
Intermediate Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 409
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.248.92
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 02:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ARRAUGH!!! Too much math. I'll let ProMash do it for me.

As it turned out, I got 63% kettle efficiency on the Doppelbock after planning for 55%. Since I added an additional 1/2 pound each of Munich and Pilsner to my recipe to account for the low efficiency, the 63% yielded a 1.082 beer. I got only 21% on the small beer, which would have yielded a 1.028 5-gallon beer. I added 1 pound of DME to kick it up to 1.040.

(Tom, I used 1.5 qt/lb. I infused to 146F, decocted to 157F, added 10 quarts boiling water to both mash out and achieve my desired pre-boil volume. I ended up with 5.25 gallons (post-boil) due to a small transfer mishap - it would have been maybe 5.5, which is what I was shooting for.)
 

Doug W
Member
Username: Pivorat

Post Number: 150
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 24.247.206.206
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 07:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why hasnt Denny jumped into this thread? is he on the Green Board.........
 

Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 1004
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 217.44.52.121
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seems like my question has been answered. I've only done this once and I pretty much did the same as Greg, two mashes combined to make a barley wine, and in my case, a bitter. I have a bigger mash tun now so am toying with the idea of doing something similar again. Maybe an IIPA with the second runnings supplemented with honey to make a light honey beer.
 

Joseph Listan
Advanced Member
Username: Poonstab

Post Number: 886
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 66.192.83.65
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unless quantity of the first beer is critical, you could stop the first sparge a bit earlier (fly sparging) or retain a bit of the first batch and add it to the second boiler (batch sparging) to increase the gravity of the second gyle. I have heard that the second beer can be a bit lifeless if it doesn't start out with very much gravity.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 2510
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.215.203.195
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joseph, I did a parti-gyle test where I tried to make two batches of same beer, a mild ale, using the first runnings for one( it needed to be diluted) and only the second runnings for the other, stopping at 1.010. I got the gravity of the two batches within a few points. If there was to be an important difference between the beginning and the end of a sparge, it should have stuck out like a sore thumb. While I won't say that they were identical, they were both very good with some even preferring the second batch to the first. I think that the rap on the last runnings being tannic or lifeless is exaggerated.

Dan

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Tom Gardner
Advanced Member
Username: Tom

Post Number: 770
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 72.254.1.203
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Graham, I think your addition of water for mash out changes things from a true no-sparge, thus your lower gravity for the second batch.

Sometimes my second runnings beers are better than the first, sometimes not! YMMV, Tom

(Message edited by tom on March 01, 2006)