| Author |
Message |
    
Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver
Post Number: 1032
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.253.156
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 07:11 pm: | 
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I'm doing my taxes today and came across a credit for "Alcohol used as fuel."
Hmmm... I regularly use alcohol as fuel for my body, my creativity, my personality, etc. Whaddaya think? Could I also deduct the expenses of producing the alcohol? |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 6908
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 07:17 pm: |
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I didn't see a smiley after your post. 
One thing the tax man doesn't have is a sense of humor. I can say that one of the best decisions I never made was to accept the offer of a job years ago as a revenue agent with the IRS. |
Ted Grudzinski
Member
Username: Tgrudzin
Post Number: 183
Registered: 08-2003
Posted From: 208.250.29.8
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 07:59 pm: |
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Wow, I saw that yesterday also. Who else on the board hasn't filed his US taxes yet??? |
Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver
Post Number: 1033
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.253.156
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 08:47 pm: |
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Technically, the yeast are employees. There's another write-off.  |
Doug W
Intermediate Member
Username: Pivorat
Post Number: 266
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 24.247.206.206
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 08:53 pm: |
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Oh Noes, I just seen a AFL-CIO member talking to my yeast ((*me*)) telling them to get their sorry arses to work and no there isnt any paid leave or breaks at my factory! 
hmmmmm Fermentors as building and structural write offs!  |
Richard Nye
Senior Member
Username: Yeasty_boy
Post Number: 2060
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 68.4.179.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 03:25 am: |
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I've been known to convert alcohol to methane gas which can be used for energy (be careful if you use a lighter).
Yeast as employees? Maybe offspring. Think of the deductions!!! |
Master B
Member
Username: Cwixon
Post Number: 159
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.149.67.117
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 12:16 am: |
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Nowhere in the US Constitution does it say American citizens are legally bound to pay taxes:
AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM :
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198
There are people who do not pay taxes anymore, and are never bothered by the IRS.
There are also some who are sent to court for not paying and acquitted.
I pay, but only because I'm not a lawyer!! 
99% of the services we use in life are all provided by the state.
Corporate taxes are sufficient to fund the US defense (to keep the current defense spending).
We're not here for a long time. We're here for a good time.
Cheers to life!!
|
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 6914
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 01:08 am: |
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I challenge you not to pay your taxes and see what happens. There was a guy on my street in a neighborhood where I used to live who preached the same line about taxes not being mandatory. He came home one night to find his house padlocked, his bank accounts seized and his credit cards cancelled. |
Jason Bentley
Junior Member
Username: Pacoustic
Post Number: 81
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.26.195.172
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 03:05 pm: |
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Irwin Schiff one of the largest proponents of the taxation is unconstitutional argument is currently in prison. While the constitution itself did not make a provision for a federal income tax the 16th amendment did and it was properly ratified by the states.
My late uncle who happened to be a career gambler studied tax law in good detail for obvious reasons and decided the tax code has ample room within the law to reduce a self employed individual’s tax burden that blatantly failing to file would be incredibly foolish.
Hey if you want to stretch things I figure we could get some mileage out of homebrewing as a medical expense. Think of it stress reduction beneficial properties of the hops. |
Ron Siddall
Intermediate Member
Username: El_cid
Post Number: 296
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 198.135.241.18
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 03:25 pm: |
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"99% of the services we use in life are all provided by the state"
- Federal highway system isn't.
- National Parks aren't.
- NASA isn't(gave us all the microwave oven)
- Air traffic controllers aren't.
- Border Patrol isn't (could go under defense).
- FDA ins't.
- EPA isn't.
- FCC ins't.
I am sure there are more.
You don't have to pay taxes but you will have to go to jail and in jail Bubba will has an extra special tax for you to pay.
This space open to interpretation
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Liquidbreaddiet
Advanced Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 579
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 148.168.40.4
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:01 pm: |
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i pay my taxes - but i am really curious why the irs will not publish the law publically. can anyone provide that for us
"If I'm not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
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Ron Siddall
Intermediate Member
Username: El_cid
Post Number: 297
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 198.135.241.18
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:47 pm: |
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The tax code which runs 10,000 plus pages is indeed published.
Oh yeah, and ATF
This space open to interpretation
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Liquidbreaddiet
Advanced Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 580
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 148.168.40.4
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:26 pm: |
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Ron - thanks for that response but I wasn't trying to be a goof or get a goofy answer. While i don't agree or believe the majority of what the film at the link said - I did find in interesting that when questioned the IRS has not or will not produce evidence that says income tax is legal. The tax code apparently doesn't say it either -
it only says how you are to be taxed. Again I pay my taxes and I am one of those individuals who is in the highest income tax bracket. Unfortunately i am at the lowest end of that income tax bracket so it seams like i get screwed the most.
ron - i may be mistake but i believe indirect taxes pays for most if not all of the things you list in your earlier post - i know for certain that gas tax pays for highways. I am only interested in hearing about income taxes
"If I'm not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
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Mike
Intermediate Member
Username: Macker
Post Number: 409
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 151.151.21.102
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:48 pm: |
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The legality of the Federal Government taxing its citizenry is very clear. It is covered in the 16th Amenmdment of the United States Constitution. In this amendment, it states "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." This is very broad, but as most can see, very clear about the legality. Where the IRS Code comes in is the method and application of this amendment.
Typically, the folks that espouse tax avoidance schemes are hucksters, con artists, woefully ignorant of the law, or just plain and simple whack jobs. Typically the logic of these tax-avoidance promoters is that the Federal income tax is unconstitutional and/or the Federal income tax, as Congress has enacted it, allows us to voluntarily pay or not pay our income tax liability. If you read the 16th Amendment in its entirety, you see the fallacy in this argument. |
Ron Siddall
Intermediate Member
Username: El_cid
Post Number: 298
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 198.135.241.18
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 07:52 pm: |
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Liquid, what is in indirect tax? A tax is a tax is a tax. Federal highway funds go to the state from federal tax receipts. Why does it matter how it gets into the Treasury? A dollar goes into the Treasury and three dollars comes out (deficit spending).
The IRS doesn't produce proof because they don't have to. They just put a lein on your assets or income if you do not belly up to the tax bar.
This space open to interpretation
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Doug W
Intermediate Member
Username: Pivorat
Post Number: 273
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 24.180.80.247
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 07:58 pm: |
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http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer |
Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes
Post Number: 2734
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 208.49.148.10
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 08:37 pm: |
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I thought this was going to be more of a fun topic? Like, what new brewing toys can I buy with my tax refund?
 |
Liquidbreaddiet
Advanced Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 581
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 148.168.40.4
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 09:09 pm: |
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ron an indirect tax - is something that is built into the cost. IE gas - tobacco, alcohol. it is taxed the same for everyone at a federal level - however there can also be additional state taxes levied on top of those taxes.
Vance _ Tax refund? Whats that? i havent seen one in years
"If I'm not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
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Jon Steinhauer
Senior Member
Username: Jstein6870
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 74.36.51.73
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 10:54 pm: |
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I think the taxes on gas, booze and cigarettes are direct. It's the increased cost of say, shipping a sack of malt from the Cities, that is the indirect tax.
Liquidbread...you must be so proud to have Warren Buffett and Bill Gates as you peers. You're obviously not be paying you fair share as one of the wealthiest Americans.
Steinhauer
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Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.174.22.26
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 10:56 pm: |
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I'm using my refund, in part, for a mini-beer vacation! I'm going to Memphis Thursday to judge an evening session of the Bluff City Extravaganza, then going to Minneapolis to judge in the Midwest Regionals Friday and Saturday. Woe is me!
I also was invited to a Navy reunion and I'm going to brew a pale ale to take with me. I need a 5# CO2 tank and a jockey box (I think).
Sorry to stir up a shiite storm. It was a joke. |
Ron Siddall
Intermediate Member
Username: El_cid
Post Number: 299
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 198.135.241.18
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 11:15 pm: |
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Well using your definition then my federal wage tax is indirect as well as it is built into my wages.
This space open to interpretation
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Liquidbreaddiet
Advanced Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 582
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 148.168.40.4
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 12:25 pm: |
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the difference is that everyone is taxed the same at the federal level for gas tobacco etc. income tax is different - if you make 100,000 a year you are taxed a different percentage than someone who makes 25,000.
Jon the difference between me and bill gates is about oh i dunno 40 billion dollars. comparatively - being at the lowest level of the highest income tax bracket it hurts me more than it does the likes of bill gates. while we get taxed the same - im quite sure he has the ability to absorb the cost through write offs, loop holes, and overall amount of money the man has. for instance for arguement sake - lets say i make 100k a year. for each 100k i make he probably makes 10,000,000. it is probably more but who knows. that is 100 times more than i make. so if we both pay 28% - i pay 28k a year and he pays 2.8 million in taxes. still 100 times more than i am paying but it effects my pocket book far greater than it does his. Am I mad about that - No. Do americans deserve better yes. I have no problems paying taxes - it would just be a nicer if it was a little bit easier to pay my bills, save for my sons college, and my retirement. I don't have a lot of discressionary spending. In fact we live on a pretty stringent budget. I guess my doller would go a little further if i lived in kansas, iowa, or another midwestern state but i don't. I live in New England. No offence to anyone that lives there but it is simply not as expensive to live in certain places in the US. Jon - looking at your profile - I cannot imagine that a pathologist is hurting too much in the finance department.
"If I'm not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
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Richard Nye
Senior Member
Username: Yeasty_boy
Post Number: 2070
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 68.4.179.10
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 12:41 pm: |
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I wish taxes were only 28%. I use 50% income tax as a general rule of thumb. That includes federal and state (CA) income tax, FICA, and property tax. It's probably a little less than that, but close. And then you add sales tax, gas tax, and oh yes, alcohol tax. Now we're over 50%. |
Liquidbreaddiet
Advanced Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 583
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 148.168.40.4
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 02:50 pm: |
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28% meaning federal taxes. When it works out i basically account for 40% going to all taxes/
"If I'm not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
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Ron Siddall
Intermediate Member
Username: El_cid
Post Number: 304
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 198.135.241.18
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 03:27 pm: |
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Liguid, in America you too can do what Bill Gates did. I am not saying it will be easy, but it is possible.
If you want to earn more money, you need to make yourself more valuable to your company or if self employed, more valuable to your customers.
You make more money by earning it, not trying to reduce your taxes.
BTW, it is a universal law for most of us that the more we make, the more our expenses go up. Of course, there is a point where you are just making so much money that you cannot spend it all. However, that is probably only a problem for about .005% of the population.
I bring this up only because saving for retirement, kids college, and or a vacation is a lot more involved than just getting your taxes lowered a little bit.
This space open to interpretation
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Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 6938
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 04:46 pm: |
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Ron's right about the fact that taxes are only a part of the total financial equation. The supreme law of economics states there is no free lunch. |
Mike
Intermediate Member
Username: Macker
Post Number: 410
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 151.151.21.102
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 05:50 pm: |
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Liquidbreaddiet
Advanced Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 582
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 148.168.40.4
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 12:25 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the difference is that everyone is taxed the same at the federal level for gas tobacco etc.
How is this different than your example? The gas tax has a much different effect on a guy making 20% less than the median income than the person that makes 20% more than median. I would agree that we are all taxed the same dollar amount, but again, it will vary by what our total income is.
I would love to earn an income that I paid $2.8 million on....hell, I would love to make an income that I was paying $28 thousand in taxes! |
Liquidbreaddiet
Advanced Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 584
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 148.168.40.4
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 06:46 pm: |
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mike -
you are right the lowest earners feel the pain the most- but wouldn't they feel it more if they were taxed at the same rate i was for their income tax as well. My point was is that the taxes are disproportionate. in my example whether or not i make 100k or 100million i am taxed at the same rate.
Ron - I am full agreement with you - if you want to make more money you need to do it yourself. In the past two years i have tripled my income. This was not handed to me as a gift. It came from a lot of extra effort and dedication. I fully agree with you about the universal truth about the more you make the more you spend.
However - taxes on the other hand do make a difference especially when it comes to retirement. Just because I can sock money away in my SEP-IRA every year doesnt mean it is tax free - the minute I retire- that money gets taxed. This will play a factor because I am quite sure by the time i am elegible to retire (year 2042) Social security will not exist. It would be nice to see things like retirement, college tuition etc tax free.
Again I am not a proponent of a free ride or redistribution of wealth etc. I just wish it was a little bit easier to get by.
"If I'm not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
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Mike
Intermediate Member
Username: Macker
Post Number: 412
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 151.151.73.166
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 07:29 pm: |
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Liquid
It is not an automatic that you IRA will be taxed the minute you retire. Those funds are taxed as you draw from these funds. As well, you have to begin mandatory distributions at age 70.5. In order to hedge your bets, you should also look at a Roth IRA as well. The distribution of funds from these accounts are a tax free occurence, and helps in your future planning.
As far as your other example, I was talking about the federal gas tax. It is disproportionate. The amount you pay in relation to your income for federal gas tax is different than someone that makes median income.
I am not a tax advisor, nor do I play one on TV. |
John Baer
Member
Username: Beerman
Post Number: 199
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 141.158.20.2
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 08:24 pm: |
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"You should also look at a Roth IRA as well."
Yeah, but your ability to use this vehicle is phased out as your income increases. So, if you are in the highest tax bracket, you may not qualify for a Roth IRA.
JB |
Mike
Intermediate Member
Username: Macker
Post Number: 413
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 151.151.73.166
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 08:49 pm: |
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For 2007, eligibility for Roth contibutions is phased out between adjusted gross income (AGI) of $156,000 and $166,000 for joint filers and between $99,000 and $114,000 for singles.
Perhaps Liquid is there, but then again, the low end of the highest tax bracket (for 2006) is $336K and up for single, married filing jointly and HOH. This rate is 35%. And, contrary to his earlier example, it is not 35% of your total income. In this case, it would be 35% of income ABOVE $336K AGI, and correpsonding rates for the amounts below this figure.
I think he might have been thinking of a lower bracket. |
Doug W
Intermediate Member
Username: Pivorat
Post Number: 276
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 24.247.206.206
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 09:02 pm: |
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CAN we please stop talking about taxes and all tax matters on the 17th? I mean that is the deadline for the IRS, how bout we make it the deadline here, and talk more about beer or starting a LHBS to use as a write off when you and your friends buy and test the materials for sale before hand and you loose money on it.(((Drinking up the profits))) |
Mike
Intermediate Member
Username: Macker
Post Number: 414
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 151.151.73.166
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 09:06 pm: |
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Doug, we can only stop if someone is totally nauseated by it..... |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 6940
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 09:32 pm: |
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Yes, taxes are depressing but not half as juvenile as some of the other antics here. I suspect the tax talk will go away after the 17th. I'm unluckly enough to owe income taxes on both sides of the border, but I accept that if I didn't earn the income I wouldn't be paying the tax.
(Message edited by BillPierce on April 16, 2007) |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 4729
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 09:58 pm: |
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There are juvenile antics going on at the B&V? |
Spartacus
Junior Member
Username: Spartacus_manly
Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 10:25 pm: |
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Yes, taxes are depressing but not half as juvenile as some of the other antics here.
Bill... are you a passive aggresive troll???
Skotrats Homebrew: http://www.skotrat.com
BrewRats Homebrew Club: http://www.brewrats.org
BBS: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/webboard
|
Mike
Intermediate Member
Username: Macker
Post Number: 415
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 151.151.73.167
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 10:35 pm: |
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Personally, I find Bill's post nauseating. Can't he just leave it alone?
Xxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxxx xxxx xx xxx "Holier than thou" xxxxx.....
(Message edited by Macker on April 16, 2007) |
Spartacus
Junior Member
Username: Spartacus_manly
Post Number: 100
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 12:33 am: |
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I'm unluckly enough to owe income taxes on both sides of the border
Damn... You have to pay taxes in 51st state too?
Skotrats Homebrew: http://www.skotrat.com
BrewRats Homebrew Club: http://www.brewrats.org
BBS: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/webboard
|
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 6943
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 01:23 am: |
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They even speak a different language in Puerto Rico...er, Quebec.  |
Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus_manly
Post Number: 101
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 01:55 am: |
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They Speak a Wicked Good Different Language in New England too
(edited for typos)
(Message edited by spartacus_manly on April 17, 2007)
Skotrats Homebrew: http://www.skotrat.com
BrewRats Homebrew Club: http://www.brewrats.org
BBS: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/webboard
|
Liquidbreaddiet
Advanced Member
Username: Liquidbreaddiet
Post Number: 585
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 148.168.40.4
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 12:49 pm: |
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mike thanks for the advise but i am not elegible for a roth IRA. lets end this tax talk.
"If I'm not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
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Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus_manly
Post Number: 103
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 12:57 pm: |
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Tim Roth has an IRA?
Skotrats Homebrew: http://www.skotrat.com
BrewRats Homebrew Club: http://www.brewrats.org
BBS: http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/webboard
|
Rob Farrell
Intermediate Member
Username: Robf
Post Number: 439
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.241.158.33
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 02:45 pm: |
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The 17th doesn't end anything. I mailed a check in with my extension this morning. I have until October to finish my taxes. I'm not that much of a slacker, my wife has an S-corporation (we pay the tax) and is a low priority with her accountant.
The tax code absolutely blows. We in the states are now in political environment in which both major parties will spend your money like drunken sailors. |
Mike
Intermediate Member
Username: Macker
Post Number: 416
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 151.151.73.165
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 03:32 pm: |
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Crap, Liquidbread, I was almost feeling sorry for you there! |
tim roth
Advanced Member
Username: Hopdude
Post Number: 519
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 12.206.8.165
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 03:48 am: |
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Jeesh...
I've been away for too long.
"Tim Roth has an IRA"?
I wish!!
You know I'm on the level because, my bubble is in the middle.
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Brews and Views Archive 2007 
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