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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2007 * Archive through June 06, 2007 * Brewing a Belgian Strong Dark < Previous Next >

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Michael Boyd
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlboyd

Post Number: 337
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 69.85.158.4
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am making a few Belgian style beers this summer and I found a recipe for “Jamil Zainasheff's Belgian Strong Ale”, that I had saved in my computer at some time. My question to the collective is doesn’t this seem like a lot of malt for five gallons? It calls for an OG of 1.120, which seems like a very strong beer.

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
66.7 16.00 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
4.2 1.00 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25
2.1 0.50 lbs. Melanoidin Malt 1.033 35
12.5 3.00 lbs. Munich Malt(dark) America 1.033 20
4.2 1.00 lbs. CaraMunich Malt Belgium 1.033 75
4.2 1.00 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
2.1 0.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Belgium 1.038 2
4.2 1.00 lbs. Cane Sugar

I was thinking about reducing the Pils until an OG of ~1.090.
Although Jamil is such a respected homebrewer I may not mess with it, and make it according to the recipe.

Thanks
 

Jesper Nymann
New Member
Username: Nymann

Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 62.107.118.195
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 08:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

According to this site the recipe is for 6 gallons with an OG of 1.103.

http://www.beerdujour.com/Recipes/Jamil/Belgian_Strong_Dark_Ale.html
 

Michael Boyd
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlboyd

Post Number: 338
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 69.85.158.4
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for the double post. Can I edit it out?
I wondered if I had messed around with the recipe in Promash and accidently saved the changes. Thanks
 

Colby Enck
Intermediate Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 421
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 70.44.68.25
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WWJD?... What Would Jamil Do?
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1137
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 209.60.72.210
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 04:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't speak for The Great JZ, but I will offer the following observation:

Abbey-style brews are typically well-attenuated beers, so an OG of 1.100, as an example, might produce a 12+%abv beer at 85%+ attenuation, while a more "normal" 1.100 beer/yeast combo might be more reasonably expected to produce a 10% beer at 75% attenuation. Neither is out of style for a BDS, but a 1.120 wort producing a 14-15% abv beer would be a bit hot, I would think. (Lots of assumptions here, move along.)

I like the recipe, aside from the superfluous wheat addition, which I think is unnecessary. I agree with what seems to be his thinking in that travelling into the realm of 15% sugars is a recipe for disaster, not a Belgian Dark Strong, despite some of the popular literature to the contrary.

The man knows what he's doing. His Ninkasi award was not a flash in the pan, as evidenced by his very strong showing both last year and in the first round this year.
 

Rob Farrell
Intermediate Member
Username: Robf

Post Number: 448
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.241.158.33
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I listened to Jamil's Belgian Dark Strong podcast while weeding the front garden a couple of weeks ago. I don't remember much, but the garden still looks good, so it wasn't a loss. When I intend to brew one, I'll listen to it again. BTW, he doesn't go by "The Great JZ," but by "Pope Jamil."
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 740
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 85.166.31.43
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 02:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"The man knows what he's doing. His Ninkasi award was not a flash in the pan, as evidenced by his very strong showing both last year and in the first round this year."

No doubt. But there seems to be developing a kind of deification of brewers that have great success - and that may not be such a good thing for diversity. Just because somebody consistently does very well in competitions, they don't necessarily have all the answers.

When masses of brewers flock to follow in the footsteps of successful brewers and copying their recipes and processes, that could easily become a limiting factor in their brewing, and hinder their development.

There's no harm in getting cues from successful brewers, but my personal feeling is that when you put a brewer, no matter how accomplished, on a pedestal, you're doing yourself a disservice. "What Would Jamil Do" would be a prime example of this!

Just my personal opinion, of course, and no slight directed at anybody.
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 7203
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also highly recommend Stan Hieronymus's Brew Like a Monk, not as a prescription for brewing these beers but as an exploration of the broader culture in which they are brewed as well as a treasure trove of specific insights about them.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 1139
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 209.60.72.210
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When masses of brewers flock to follow in the footsteps of successful brewers and copying their recipes and processes, that could easily become a limiting factor in their brewing, and hinder their development.

No doubt, Joakim. That's why I don't brew other people's recipes. I shake my head sadly at the cult status that certain recipes seem to have here - they are like the Pied Piper leading the village's children into the mountains.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 4394
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.59.245
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I shake my head sadly at the cult status that certain recipes seem to have here - they are like the Pied Piper leading the village's children into the mountains."

Hear, hear!

--This space is STILL being left intentionally blank.-


 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 7205
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.224.220
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, some recipes are so good I have made only slight modifications to them. I brewed them and thought they were very close to perfection as I defined it. But overall I defend each brewer's right to develop his own conclusions.
 

The Jolly Brewer
Senior Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 1627
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 86.128.162.236
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lets face it, even if you follow a recipe to the letter, 10 brewers will have 10 different beers. We've done a few 'club brews' where all at the beer club made the same beer (in theory) then we tasted them side by side. Although they all tasted similar, they were all distinctly different, and we could almost pin point who brewed what. This just adds credence to the theory that there are 'house flavours' particular to each brewer, these include water composition, boil rates, fermenter dimensions, yeast health etc...
 

Joakim Ruud
Advanced Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 742
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 85.166.31.43
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 04:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

JB, very true!
For to accuse requires less eloquence, such is man's nature, than to
excuse; and condemnation, than absolution, more resembles justice.
-Hobbes, Leviathan
 

Colby Enck
Intermediate Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 422
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 70.44.68.25
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What I want to know is, for every great beer that someone like JZ makes, how many does he make that are just OK?

I've made some super-awesome beers that might have won awards if I hadn't drank them all. I've dumped a few. For me, at least, the quality of all my brews taken together would fit a bell curve quite nicely. Can most people say differently?
 

Marlon Lang
Junior Member
Username: Marlon_lang

Post Number: 88
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 68.155.79.34
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 03:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bless you, Colby! You speak a TRUTH.
Illegitimi non carborundum rectum