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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2007 * Archive through November 14, 2007 * Oxygen concentrators < Previous Next >

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Jon Steinhauer
Senior Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 1189
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 74.36.53.28
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 11:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has anyone ever tried a medical oxygen concentrator for wort aeration? They can produce 95% oxygen upto about five liters per minute. I'm not sure this is enough for practical brewery use, but it's one of those things that should be relatively easy to pick up used. I don't ever recall seeing this discussed here, and I don't find it in a brief search.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 7941
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 02:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This wouldn't be a problem for you, Steinhuaer, but refilling medical O2 cylinders requires a prescription.

To answer your question, yes, a medical O2 cylinder and regulator will do nicely for oxygenating wort.
 

Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 1194
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 139.76.128.71
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 02:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"medical O2 cylinders requires a prescription"

Why would this be? Is the Federal Imperial Government afraid people will OD on O2?
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 1135
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 74.226.122.50
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 02:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jon's not talking about cylinders of O2, but the machine that continually makes it.

http://www.appliedozone.com/medical_oxygen_generator.html

My dad had one he used at home so that he wasn't always "On the Bottle". I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work, though the initial cost has got to be expensive even for used and the same for any maintenance.
 

Brewzz
Intermediate Member
Username: Brewzz

Post Number: 350
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.112.116.217
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had to "rent"one of those when my wife was ill a few years ago.It was very expensive..
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 7942
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My mistake. I should have read Steinhauer's question more carefully. Medical O2 concentrators are certainly pricey when new. Are they more affordable on the used market?
 

Mike Mayer
Advanced Member
Username: Mmayer

Post Number: 781
Registered: 12-2002
Posted From: 66.94.94.249
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a medical O2 tank and all the local welding shops here in Cleveland have no problems filling it up. Only once was I questioned about it, and when I told them it was for brewing beer, they just said....well....alrighty then, let's fill er up.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 2933
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 209.155.236.154
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's some off line correspondence about these from a few years back. Had a friend that had several of these before he died and I could have gotten my hands on several. After finding out more about them I decided to pass and just keep using the little O2 cylinders.

Vance,

I spoke with a friend of mine who is an RT and works for a Home Health Co. She doesn't actually perform manitenance on the concentrators but she did have some helpful info. She said that with normal (24/7/365) use the Co. that she works for tears down the conctrators every 6 months and changes out the silica rocks and all the filters. They check to make sure everytthing is working ok by turning the unit on and measure the approx. O2 percentage with a side draft port and O2 analyzer. Basically for each liter of O2 you are running you will get about a 4% increase in the % of O2 you are inhaling. So, if you have the unit running 1 LPM then you are inhaling about 25% O2 instead of the normal 21% that is in our atmosphere. So, the thing I would do is try and find a local RT that makes beer and see if he can test the units for you. If they are putting out appropriate O2 amounts then I would just clean up the removable filters on the unit and store it in a clean dry place. Other than that I really can't give you too much more info without seeing the unit or being able to analyze the O2 it is putting out. I hope this all helps you.

Chris

I may have confused you a little here. When the pt is using a NC at 1 LPM they are only gettting about 25% O2 to their lungs because they are also entraining Room Air as well. The tube that the O2 is coming out of still has almost 100% O2 running through it. I am not exactly sure how the techs test the units at the lab, but I have been told they do some sort of side draft test. They may actually have some sort of unit which runs RA through it at a certain LPM that hooks up to the concentrator and then they measure the mixed solution O2 %. But, again I am not sure. But the O2 coming out of the concentrator is very close to 100% pure O2.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 4999
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.59.245
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My mother always said that hospital O2 was far superior to her machine's.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 2940
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 209.155.236.154
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That makes sense Dan. With the machine you're only getting 25% total O2 since normal air is getting inhaled as the same time (entraining Room Air as well). With a mask you're getting straight O2. They probably have a way mixing in room air but I'm not sure. Guess it also depends on if its a mask or just a tube feeding the O2.
 

Jon Steinhauer
Senior Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 1190
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 74.36.53.28
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 11:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wasn't really looking for one. My wife actually brought up the subject, and I got curious. It seemed like a natural thing for a homebrewer to be using, if it worked. I'm not sure 5 liters per minute comes close to what comes out the regulated cylinder per unit time, so I don't know how long you would have to let one run for adequate aeration.

I thought you might be able to find used ones rather inexpensively. There are always adds in the newspaper for hospital beds, commodes, wheelchairs and other items that become unneeded when someone dies.
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 1136
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 72.155.222.88
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 12:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure 5 liters per minute comes close to what comes out the regulated cylinder per unit time . . .

True, but surely that's equal to or more than the aquarium pumps some folks use.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 7951
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

According to this information, 2-3 lpm is enough. I might argue for 4, but it's academic.

http://hbd.org/discus/messages/34426/35939.html
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 2933
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 74.120.28.197
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 01:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

just for interest, there is no difference between medical grade and weldng rade O2. They are both created at the same time by the same process. It is the certification process that is different
 

Jon Steinhauer
Senior Member
Username: Jstein6870

Post Number: 1191
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 74.36.53.28
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It remains to be seen, I guess, whether one of these would pay for itself in the long run, over the cost of buying bottled oxygen. I'll keep my eyes casually peeled. I have no idea how much a used on runs.