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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2009 * Archive through July 09, 2009 * Bottle Carbing < Previous Next >

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Jeff Dieterle
Junior Member
Username: Dietejr

Post Number: 53
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 67.142.130.46
Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Currently I brew 12.5 gallons, filling 2 cornies and a case of bottles. I use the sugar/boiling water method for the cornies and bottles. For the cornies I pour the carb solution directly in the corny, for bottles I use a bottling bucket to mix and wand to fill.
Are their sanitation issues if I put the correct amount of dry sugar in each bottle, skipping the bottling bucket and filling directly from the fermenter. I suppose I could use prime tabs instead of the sugar, but the sugar is handy and one less item to purchase.
 

Tony Legge
Intermediate Member
Username: Boo_boo

Post Number: 449
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 174.116.59.12
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been brewing for over 25 years on and off and have used the dry addition method for a good many years without an infection. I prefer the bulk prime method now as I feel it gives a more even carbonation. It shouldn't be different if your measurement is accurate, but I still found better results doing a bulk prime.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 2210
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 98.239.20.117
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 06:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jeff, I've used sucrose right out of a 2-quart Rubbermaid hopper, and Dixie Crystals 1/2 teaspoon size sugar cubes with no problems. By the time the beer is fully fermented and ready for bottling, the pH is low enough, and the alcohol level high enough, that most common spoilage organisms are going to have a hard time getting enough of a foothold to cause a major problem. There are exceptions, of course, but in my study and my experience, none of them commonly reside in sucrose.
 

Jeff Dieterle
Junior Member
Username: Dietejr

Post Number: 54
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 72.171.0.147
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the feedback. My motivation is eliminating the need for a bottling bucket/spigot and it's care. The small sugar cube scheme is a great idea if measuring & dispensing a few grams of powder gets to be a hassle.
 

Fritz Eubanks
Junior Member
Username: Fritzeubanks

Post Number: 62
Registered: 05-2003
Posted From: 131.167.64.11
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Another method I've used in the past is to make up a sugar solution of sufficient volume that I could add 1 teaspoon per bottle (6 teaspoons per fl. oz., so one cup of solution primes 48 bottles). I found it easier and more consistent than measuring out small amounts of dry ingredients.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10384
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Priming should not be a big deal. It's more exact to add all the priming solution at once (stirring well, of course), and to measure the priming sugar by weight, but as the others have mentioned above there are various alternatives.

Jeff, is your goal to be able to bottle directly from the primary fermenter?
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5819
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I have the same question as Bill....how do you do that? What kind of fermentor do you have?
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 6645
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.29.223.32
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I caution against bottle priming for safety reasons. It is one thing to do, say, four minikegs, but 50 bottles is another thing. You may get distracted and skip a bottle. This is harmless and you might very well see it for correction.

On the other hand, the same distraction might cause you to double prime a bottle. You are less likely to notice this and it could cause a bottle to blow up.
 

Bob Boufford
Intermediate Member
Username: Bobb

Post Number: 432
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 96.52.216.245
Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I bottle/mini-key right from the primary fermenter for most of my beers. But I prefer to use prime tabs/carb drops for the bottles, particularly the Muntons Carb tabs if I need to adjust carbonation. Otherwise, it's Coopers drops most of the time. I just use a racking cane with tip, bottling wand and a racking cane clip to keep it above the sediment.

With the tabs/drops, you can see what's in the bottle before and just after bottling to verify you didn't miss a bottle or double prime.
 

Jeff Dieterle
Junior Member
Username: Dietejr

Post Number: 55
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 72.171.0.147
Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill & Chumley, I secondary everything and ferment in sanke's. I use a hoist to elevate the kegs and gravity to transfer, so I would put my racking cane on the spigot and bottle away.

Dan with a touch of "oldtimers" disease it's not just the bottling that trips me up but stuff like irish moss, taking SG readings etc., anyway I only bottle a case, sort of my way of archiving part each batch for posterity. I would probably place the cap on each bottle as I primed it as an indicator and to keep the bugs out.

If bottle carbing works for me I can eliminate the bottling bucket. I've used prime tabs in the past and can always go back if dry measuring is painful or inacurate, also Fritz's method is an option.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 3685
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 69.199.10.66
Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone that's using the Muntons carb tabs still having problems with floaties in the bottles?

Was just discussing that at the lhbs yesterday. A friend there got a refund on an entire batch because it had so many floaties in the bottles. lhbs owner contacted Muntons and they admitted they had a batch that did that. My experiance and what I've read of others is that it was more than "a batch" or else it was a mighty large batch.

I had gone back to sugar cubes because of the floties issue. Although I did like the more precise carb level you could get with the original Primetabs where you could use 3, 4, or 5 to get varying volumes of CO2.
 

Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 2631
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.248.74.254
Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I tried Cooper's Drops once...ONCE. I have a conical, and do 10 gallon batches. I thought it would be cool to keg 5 gallons and bottle the rest. The Cooper's Drops would be the perfect solution for this.

Well, I did it and enjoyed the keg from my tap, and after about a month, my keg was running low, so I chilled a couple bottles to check on the carb level, and it was just right. However, the beers all picked up a noticeable diacetyl (butter) flavor and aroma.

It is my understanding that Diacetyl is produced in the primary, and as I am rather sensitive to it, I did not notice it in my kegged beer, something about the Cooper's Drops brought it out.

I may try the Munton's Carb Tabs, but Once bitten...

(Message edited by brewdudebob on May 28, 2009)
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 6646
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 74.83.191.159
Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use Cooper's Drops for one gallon test batches. Who wants to bulk prime nine bottles? They always seem to have worked fine!
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10387
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been doing a fair amount of bottling in 2 liter plastic soda bottles lately. My inlaws are back with us, and as they are European, they like beer or wine with their dinner. Shared among four adults, a 2 liter bottle is just about the right amount.

I also have become partial to naturally carbonating even my kegs (I'm convinced it retards staling), so most of the time I prime the entire batch in the bucket from which I bottle and keg. However, as many of you know, I make large yeast starters for 10 gallon batches, and I usually lightly hop the starter for use as table beer. The typical yield of the liquid portion of the starter is three 2 liter bottles.

For priming this table beer, I calculate the amount of sugar (white table sugar works very well for me) by weight and stir it into a cup of boiling water. Then I pour roughly equal (I eyeball it) amounts of priming solution into the sanitized soda bottles and use a bottle filler and racking cane from starter fermenter that has been crash cooled. The result seems to be carbonated very closely to the desired level.
 

Tonymaud
Junior Member
Username: Tonymaud

Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2008
Posted From: 151.190.254.108
Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill,
Just curious, what type of vessel are you using to make such large starters?

So, you crash cool the fermenter to get the yeast to settle out? How long do you let it cool for?

Interesting idea!

Those of you using sugar cubes to prime, does 1 cube prime 1 12oz bottle?
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 2211
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 98.239.20.117
Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1 half-teaspoon cube carbonates 1 12 ounce bottle. Sugar cubes come in several sizes - the half-teaspoon size fits the standard longneck mouth very well, and coincidentally is the right amount of sugar.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5822
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 71.217.153.90
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 03:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is one of the more useful bits of information that has been posted here in quite some time.....thanks, Graham.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10388
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tony, I have a variety of vessels for large starters, including a couple of 1 US gallon glass jugs, a 5 liter (litre for us Canucks, eh!) flask and two 3 US gallon carboys.
 

Don Price
New Member
Username: Mobeer4don

Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 173.65.151.45
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've boiled up a sugar solution and then used a syringe to dose each bottle. I made up a little spreadsheet to estimate the CO2 level so it was easy to prime to 2.0 or 3.0 volumes or whatever. Good idea for anyone wanting experiment (easily) with fine tuning carbonation levels. Most gets kegged and the munton's prime tabs are my usual method.

Don
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 6647
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 74.83.191.159
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I tried the prime tabs, I got a lot of foam. The Cooper's Drops seem to be a lot better from that perspective. Have the tabs been improved?
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 3080
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 74.210.69.85
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wow....I can't even begin to imagine priming bottles individually
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 3688
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 69.199.10.66
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Depends Dan. Are you refering to the no longer made Primetabs or the new Muntons Carbtabs? Muntons added a heading agent that was not on the list of ingrediants when they were Primetabs. I've always wondered if that's what has caused the floaties in the Carbtabs.
 

Connie
Senior Member
Username: Connie

Post Number: 1405
Registered: 10-2000
Posted From: 76.17.52.96
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 09:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I still have a sample box of the old prime tabs...some where. I used them once and decided it was to much trouble.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10393
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.141.103.148
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I liked the old PrimeTabs for the odd beer bottled for competitions or otherwise. They were accurate and relatively convenient. You did have to be careful about capping quickly before the bottles foamed over. I've not used the Muntons tabs because of the reports about "floaties." I've always thought it would be awfully easy for a formulator of sugar pills used as the placebo in clinical drug trials to sell them to a homebrew supplier. The only ingredients are powdered dextrose and a very small amount of maltodextrin used as a binder. Almost any manufacturer of over the counter pharmaceutical tablets has the equipment.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 6651
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 74.83.191.159
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now that I think about it, I am not sure if they were Primetabs or Munton's.