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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2012 * Archive through April 03, 2012 * Two day outage < Previous Next >

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Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 2859
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.15.96.196
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 03:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With all due respect to Pat and his multi-year efforts here, this is ridiculous. I really value the corporate knowledge here, and I also value the friendships that I have formed here, both online and in real life. That said, times have changed. With all due respect to Pat, and with a hearty salute for what he has accomplished through his efforts at keeping this forum going, it is time to move the hosting to a reliable third party. Thank you, Pat, for your herculean efforts to manage this herd of cats, but it's time to move on to modern technology.
 

Connie
Senior Member
Username: Connie

Post Number: 1672
Registered: 10-2000
Posted From: 98.230.141.204
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 05:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Pat!
Yeah, I miss the board when it's down, but life goes on.
Appreciate your time and efforts.
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 2222
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.251.228.92
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 01:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I only noticed the board out yesterday.

Not that big of a deal to me. It's not like I'm addicted. I can quit any time I want.

Pat, I, too, certainly appreciate your hard work.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13580
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 03:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Graham, as you know, this subject has been discussed before. Your opinion has a lot of support. However, in the end it's Pat's decision.

Here is what I know:

The HBD domain is something of a legacy application. Some of the underlying code and scripts are approaching 20 years old. A few of them require root-level access that those who run hosting services do not want to give to a customer. Additionally, there are other sites under the HBD umbrella that increase the overhead and administrative workload beyond what most garden variety services provide.

Secondly, Pat appears to be committed to a homebrew ethos about the domain and its activities. Most of us buy our ingredients and find our creativity in what we do with them. But we all know a few homebrewers who want to malt their own grains, grow their own hops, and who have even maintained their own yeast strain over the years.

The nature of the online experience has changed over time. The old days of user-supported sites and quirky individualism have morphed into a more uniform, collective world of social networking, the ascendance of personality and the commercialization of vast amounts of personal data. At least some of us mourn the loss of grassroots community and innocence that once existed. A little of that sense remains here, I suspect partly due to what Pat has done and the way he chooses to do it.

For the past couple of years, the uptime has been well in excess of 99 percent, admittedly not the 99.99+ percent of commercial sites, but quite admirable for what is a sideline for Pat. He appears to be far too dedicated to risk losing the core information under his stewardship. He's been doing it too long to believe otherwise.

Therefore I'm willing to accept Pat's decision despite the inclination of many people here to take another course.

(Message edited by BillPierce on February 03, 2012)
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 3002
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 24.2.134.193
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Up until last year, I was a strong supporter of Graham's stance, less for the occasional downtime than for the cost of maintaining what seemed to be a ridiculously expensive internet link to Pat's house. I am on record calling for a move to a server farm once a year or so.

But after the last big outage, I believe that Pat moved to a different service provider. Uptime has been excellent since then, the board loads much faster (for me, at any rate), and Pat reports that the link is much cheaper.

Good enough for me. Carry on, Pat. And thank you.
 

Pat Babcock
Moderator
Username: Pbabcock

Post Number: 260
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 136.2.1.105
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, the outage was just over 24 hours - 26 by my math.

To continue Bill's comments, the HBD scripts are approaching 25 years old, I am officially at 15 years as steward of these resources, and am also approaching 50 years outside the womb.

It's been one hell of a ride - and an incredible education - but I am contemplating either passing or extinguishing the torch. In light of this, this conversation is interesting, and I would like it to continue, if you don't mind. Please voice your opinion regarding the continuation of Brews and Views, The Brewery, the HBD website, and the HBD mailing list as, as the primary benefactors of these resources, your opinions carry significant weight with any plans I make regarding same.

Thanks.
Pat Babcock
HBD Chief of Janitorial Services
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 2478
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 99.117.36.145
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, there's no question B&V MUST continue. It's a matter of how to keep it going. I'm not the person to answer that . . just that IT MUST CONTINUE.
 

Steve Anderson
Intermediate Member
Username: Steveinmemphis

Post Number: 388
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 66.195.24.74
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pat,
Please allow Brews and Views to carry on. I do not care if you continue to administer it or let someone else do it. I am (happily) ignorant about such things. This board has been the single most important and helpful resource available to me in my 15 years of homebrewing. I have visited other boards, but I have never posted on them. From what I have seen, there is a lot more useless BS on the other boards than I see here.
 

Steve Anderson
Intermediate Member
Username: Steveinmemphis

Post Number: 389
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 66.195.24.74
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

West Tennessee has spoken.
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 2479
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 99.117.36.145
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Amen, brutha . .
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13581
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Activity is down all across the HBD domain. I believe the actual digest currently averages about one message per day. Here at B&V the volume of messages was 6390 last year compared to 43578 during the peak year of 2004. There are any number of other sites and pages where homebrew discussions take place.

As I have said before, we're dinosaurs of sorts. The online world has entered a different phase for most people. The HBD represents an old-school experience, the Web 1.0, as it were. I for one don't believe all the changes are for the better, but I'm willing to recognize I'm part of a minority.

Now what is still of value that is provided by the HBD? I would argue there are a number of things. One is the archives and library, which go back more than 20 years. A lot of it is dated and has been superseded by more recent knowledge. But there is still a treasure trove of information, and it would be a tragedy if it were to disappear, from both a practical and historical standpoint.

Secondly, there is Brews & Views. It's our online pub and clubhouse, and I will fight long and hard to keep it alive in one form or another. Perhaps it, too, will dwindle to an average of one post per day, at which point even I will have to ask if it's worth it. But I think there is still enough life left in it that I don't want to see it die yet.

That's my 10 Canadian cents (worth very slightly above a US dime at the moment I write this) on the subject.
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1251
Registered: 07-2007
Posted From: 173.9.91.69
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 10:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have said this before and will throw it out there again.

I would be happy to host the B&V on my server with updated software. At one point I offered to manage the entire deal but like Pat... After 17 years of hosting sites and also approaching 50 I am not sure that I would want to maintain all of it as I just do not have the time.

If it would help Pat at all I am in because I still feel guilty for talking him into all this all those years ago.

I would host for nothing and ask nothing in return. It is the least that I could do

(Message edited by skotrat on February 03, 2012)
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 3003
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 24.2.134.193
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I really have no opinion about any of the pages here other than the B&V and The Library. I can't remember ever making any of the recipes or reading any of the reviews. I've never read any of the HBD archives. Having no experience with most of that stuff, I cannot say whether I would keep it or not.

The information in The Library may be dated, but a lot of it is still useful. That should remain online somewhere.

The B&V may be less active than it was, but it is still the best brewing forum on the net. I have tried several others and none compare. This is the place to come for information.

I will repeat my standing offer to help move the B&V to any new server and/or software in any way I can. I make my living dealing with text databases and document management. Nearing 50 myself, I have considerable experience building and maintaining text-based web services. Anything I can do to help keep the board going, I'm happy to do.
 

Josh Vogel
Junior Member
Username: Loopie_beer

Post Number: 88
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.214.75
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 05:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sure, some may be old and some may be new but as a fairly new member let me say...
PLEASE KEEP THIS UP AND RUNNING
This is by FAR the most informative site on the www.
I know I don't contribute much here but that's because everyone if BY FAR MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE than I am.
THIS IS THE BEST FORUM THAT I HAVE EVER VISITED.
 

Andy Hancock
Intermediate Member
Username: Ahancbrew1

Post Number: 339
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 134.134.139.74
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been here for about ten years. I only use the B&V, I'm not too familiar with the other sections of the site. I never go to any other homebrew discussion sites and see no reason too. Since I donít have time to join a homebrew club, I consider this to be my club. I always come here for advice on recipes and styles from brewers with a lot more experience. I have gained a lot more knowledge from the people here than all 30 or so brewing books I own.

Please keep this site going if you can

Thanks,
Andy Hancock
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7671
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 208.85.238.144
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unlike most sane people, I visit 6-8 different homebrew sites repeatedly every day. Yeah, I guess I have no life. In spite of all that activity, I still feel like this is one of the best....maybe because of all the years I've spent here. But unlike 15 years ago, it's not the only or best game in town any longer. As good as it is, there are others that are as good or better and that divvies up the user base. I'd hate to see this site go away, but it needs to be acknowledged that things change and move on. If this board is to survive, it needs to somehow be "competetive" with all the other sites out there. I wish I had some idea of how to accomplish that, but if it doesn't happen the base here will continue to dwindle.
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 2226
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.252.26.30
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've tried visiting other sites over the years. But I found the s/n ratio to be too low.

I've been an HBD daily digest subscriber since the Rob Gardner days.

So this is really the only HB site I visit. Maybe I'm missing some things, but this is the place I feel the most comfortable.

Yes, I'm a dinosaur, and proud of it.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7672
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 208.85.238.144
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 05:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, as I was trying to say, different strokes for different folks. AFAIAC, this is one of the best sites around, but I have to admit that I find a lot of value in 1 or 2 others. As much or sometimes more than here.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13583
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, what is it that makes the other sites of equal or greater value? And what could be done to increase the value here?
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7673
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 75.145.77.185
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, quite simply it's the greater participation in those other sites, and the quality. Mind you, I'm only talking one or 2 and I've been trying to avoid naming them to avoid any appearance of favoritism. We have some great posters here, but the sheer number of posters and the quality of their information in the sites I'm thinking of is what I feel makes them equal or superior to B&V. That said, you notice I still read and post here, so my comments are in no way meant to denigrate this board. As to what could be done here, I'm clueless. We obviously need to attract the number of quality posters on those other sites, but I have no ideas about how to do that.
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 2480
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 99.117.36.145
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Based on Denny's synopsis, my takeaway is that in order for B&V to grow or remain relevant in the ever expanding brewing universe, it needs a major update both in appearance and user utilities. Let's face it, this site is predominantly visited by us old fart brewers. Newer blood is going to go the flashier, modern interfaced sites. The question becomes then, do we want this to be the brewer's retirement home, or an ongoing, relevant part of the collective brewing community??
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13585
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 05:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All right, it's clear the number of participants is way down, and there must be reasons. Assuming for the sake of argument that at least part of the problem is the appearance, utilities and features, what is it about these that could benefit from an update?

I don't mean to be flippant, but does Brews & Views need to look more like Facebook? We used to have the "star" feature enabled, for example, where others could rate a post on a scale of one to four stars. It became the object of a lot of sniping, to the point where even some regulars were behaving like junior high school kids. I began to feel like the assistant principal, and I was deleting an average of one or two posts per week.

I've stayed away from Facebook for two major reasons. The first is that I don't want my personal information and interests bought and sold and used as marketing data. Thankfully I don't foresee that happening here. But the second reason is that I think Facebook exploits social insecurity and is intended by design to make people feel (and sometimes act) like adolescents. I was very happy to leave high school, and frankly, I don't feel the need to go back.

Anyway, I'm curious to know how we can offer more here that will attract more participation, while at the same time preserving the high signal to noise ratio and encourage people to act like adults (but not necessarily like the elderly).
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 2481
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 99.117.36.145
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd be the first to admit I like the board's current civility. I'd also offer that I appreciate a more distilled list of post topics, but admit that comes from being around here for nearly 10 years. The other sites I've visited, with tons of traffic, have newbies joining all the time. That's not a bad thing, because we've all been there. But it lends itself to continued repetition of the most basic brewing questions . . is it OK to use an aluminum brew pot? Should I use bleach to sanitize? etc. etc.

As we graduate each grade in school, we leave behind the classes of elementary knowledge to get new, higher knowledge in the succeeding grade. Imagine what it would have been like if in your 3rd year of college, the professor had to plan lessons for the 4th grade level students also in the class and teach everyone simultaneously.

Would it be possible to have class levels whereby newbies start at the elementary level and via a timeline graduate to a higher board level? Or at least have topic areas for various levels of knowledge?

That's kinda where I stand on this . . which doesn't really provide a solution to the current state of B&V, but hopefully generates more discussion and ideas.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 2860
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.15.96.196
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think most of us here are graduate students as brewers and I like it that way. Frankly it annoys me when so much information on the basics of brewing is available in print and online, but some are too lazy to make an effort to find it and to take the time to read it. I don't mind answering a well-thought-out, serious but basic question, but this isn't a beginner's board.

I'm glad the discussion has morphed into this, but that was never my intention in the original post. I was merely expressing frustration with the reliability. We've had the cost discussion before as recounted above.
 

Vince Mash
New Member
Username: Vincemash

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2010
Posted From: 173.72.121.113
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

just my 2 cents which aint worth much:

1. there is another incredibly popular forum with quantity (over 100,000 members) over quality...overmoderated and basically a money making venture for the owners, unfortunately this is where everyone ends up when they start brewing and google it....and it's a damn shame

2. the old school look of this place most likely deters younger brewers from joining....I would be interested to see an age demographic of the members here....like Pat, Skotrat said above....and I too am pushing closer to the half a century mark.

3. the fact is that the info and knowledge here surpasses any other forum on the net...but I think a new forum format / modernization is in order to get some new blood into the mix
 

Steve Haun
Intermediate Member
Username: Stevehaun

Post Number: 428
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 67.209.87.85
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would like to see this site continue. You guys helped me during my transition from a kit on the stove to 35 gallon batches. I visit another home brewing site but if I have a question about making beer, I come here.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7674
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 208.85.238.144
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More like Facebook? Absolutely not. More like the AHA forum? Probably might help. But the AHA forum isn't all that flashy. I think it's the AHA name and reputation that accounts for the number and quality of posts and posters there. So, how do we get across the good points of this place that will draw that quality here? (disclaimer: I am involved in the AHA forum as the creator and moderator).
 

Ken Anderson
Senior Member
Username: Ken75

Post Number: 1958
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 76.189.235.103
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does everyone here open the B&V to the page shown below? And then click on "Last Day", or "Last Week" in the pane on the left?

start
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13586
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm willing to leave the really newbie questions to those who who enjoy (or haven't already answered them 25 times each) encouraging beginners. I agree that the occasional well-thought question from a novice brewer is welcome; every one of us was in those shoes in the past.

So if we use the analogy that most of us here are at the "advanced undergraduate" or higher levels in terms of our brewing education, we need to think about attracting more people like ourselves--and the "distinguished professors" who can help us expand our knowledge. There is a certain critical mass needed to sustain a chain reaction, and I think we're beginning to slip under that number.

In the mid-'90s when I was just getting into homebrewing, I recall reading HBD posts from those who seemed to me like the voices of authority. Many of them apparently have disappeared altogether, and only a few bother to respond to the hugely diminished number of posts (an average of less than one per day) to the HBD now. But I do occasionally see a familiar and respected name participating in some of the other homebrew discussion forums rather than here.

The question continues in my mind: what do we need to do to attract more of these advanced homebrewers and homebrewing scientists to our midst? Or do we need to accept that everything has its ebb and flow, and admit that it's only a matter of time before this forum, too, shall pass.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13587
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 08:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ken, you can bypass the opening screen (and the frames) with this URL that takes you directly to the posts in the last 24 hours: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/discus/search.cgi?method=last&number=1&units=1440&tree=ON &where=all

If you want to see the posts in the last three days, change the "units=" parameter to "4320".

In fact, I have a stored keyboard macro so that I don't even have to open my browser first: iexplore.exe http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/discus/search.cgi?method=last&number=1&units=1440&tree=ON &where=all

Or if you are running Windows 7 you can store it as an icon on the Taskbar.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7675
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 208.85.238.144
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Or do we need to accept that everything has its ebb and flow, and admit that it's only a matter of time before this forum, too, shall pass."....that's an unpleasant thought, even though it may very well be true. Or maybe I'm being influenced by the fact that I finally turn 60 in a week or so. :-)

(Message edited by denny on February 05, 2012)
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 2227
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.252.22.237
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just have this as my HBD B&V bookmark:

http://hbd.org/discus/messages/1/1

Gets me to the list I'm most interested in seeing

I'll be 60 in September, so at least I'm a little younger than some of y'all
 

Ken Anderson
Senior Member
Username: Ken75

Post Number: 1959
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 76.189.235.103
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

55 here, next month. I believe age was mentioned in this thread. Count me in with the oldsters.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7676
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 208.85.238.144
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ken, you're a kid! At 55, I was just about to have my first heart attack! Hope you fare better.
 

Tony Legge
Advanced Member
Username: Boo_boo

Post Number: 557
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 174.118.73.14
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 12:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I bounce around a few forums, but tend to stick mostly to new Canadian forums in an effort to spread the word. A lot of knowledge among the posters here and that new brewers probably feel intimidated by all the famous names posting.
And then you have the people who are always here.. who do they give advise to? I know we don't know it all yet and there is still quite a bit to learn and relearn, but we tend to look up those questions and probably have them answered before we post.

This board is one of my regulars to scan each and every day to check new posts, but there is very little volume.... but what is here is made up with quality.

I would be sorry to see it disappear.
 

Pat Babcock
Moderator
Username: Pbabcock

Post Number: 261
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 71.238.4.167
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 01:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, more voices to continuation than extinction. I've been sandboxing some of the "more modern" BBS packages, and may be moving the B&Vs board to one - as soon as I write a translator script to preserve the archives. I'm also sandboxing a CMS suite for the HBD and Brewery sites to, perhaps, allow other hands into the mix there. No ETA as yet.

Good comments - thanks for the conversation.
Pat Babcock
HBD Chief of Janitorial Services
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13589
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 04:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps a makeover will help, as if we were a bar or restaurant that needs redecorating and some menu changes to attract new customers. I agree that the AHA Forum isn't particularly flashy, although the appearance isn't as old-school as this board.

Denny, you've done an admirable job there. I don't believe anyone here holds that against you; after all, you are on the AHA Governing Committee and are serving the members of the organization (who include many of us).

However, I do wish there were a way to lure some of the more advanced level brewers who regularly participate in the AHA Forum to stop by here occasionally. There are some advantages to our more intimate sense of community, as well as the very high signal to noise ratio and less hectic pace we enjoy.
 

mikel
Intermediate Member
Username: Mikel

Post Number: 430
Registered: 02-2001
Posted From: 166.181.3.10
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 05:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I registered to this board around 2001. I am currently 35 years old and continue to enjoy the information provided by the collective. I have visited other boards but continue to come here for brewing knowledge. The "hobby" has grown and changed so much since I started that I find this board to be a pillar in the quality of it's information and represents some real wisdom and time as it relates to brewing. I appreciate the honest exchange of information without the constant pimping of "the sponsor" or "host" and the related dogmatic brewing practices or use of certain equipment that goes with that. Back when the only cult recipes came from homebrewers and no commercial beer or brewer had "rockstar" status. To me, this forum is unique in that it really retains the spirit that I love so much about homebrewing. The real DIY attitude and respect for quality. Back when I would have had to come here looking for a source for a pump suitable for brewing or a stainless compression fitting to adapt to 1/2" copper tubing that most likely didn't exist on the web. Those days are gone as there are several companies who provide almost everything you could need for brewing these days. While I appreciate that it all exists and do shop at those sites, the B+V reminds me of the "old days", and while the form may be dated where we stand now, the knowledge never will be.

Here's to all of you!

Cheers!
 

Chris Storey
Member
Username: Stuts

Post Number: 121
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 76.75.117.210
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Way back in the early 90's, I read this in a digest form. This was when my internet was $4.00 a month, ( text only if you can imagine that ). I got a lot of good info from here during the years and it would be sad to see if go. My profile says I joined in 2004, but I was reading it years before that.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 6410
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What I like about this board, is that all the discussion is located in one place - not a bunch of subforums like all-grain brewing, extract brewing, partial mash brewing, megabatch brewing, yada yada yada. The slowness is actually kind of nice....you can pop in once every 1-2 days, and keep up.
 

Rob Farrell
Advanced Member
Username: Robf

Post Number: 633
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 216.27.76.200
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 05:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All of the things we like about this forum come down to the fairly small number of users. If we had a much larger number of users, posts a day old would scroll off the bottom of the page. There is a small enough number that we all either know each other of feel like we do. We are a relic of the past, but that's a good thing.

Google pretty much anything homebrew-related and you'll get links to homebrewtalk.com, which has a large enough user base that every new product gets reviewed; every type of home-built gadget gets presented; and every thread goes on endlessly with +1 and other pointless posts. I'm glad it exists, but I'm not going to join it.

This place is great. It must carry on until we all die or quit brewing.

(Message edited by robf on February 06, 2012)
 

Brian Sparks
New Member
Username: Sparhawk

Post Number: 21
Registered: 12-2000
Posted From: 108.95.72.231
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brews and Views is and old friend, I've mostly lurked and used the search to answer most of my questions, but it's always there! It needs to continue!
B&V needs more activity, if a facelift will do it then so be it. I've recently been reading other forums that have a lot more activity and it has inspired me to expand my brewing techniques, projects, recipes, etc.
I did a search on homebrewing (on altavista back in the day) B & V posts would show up, now other forums list but not B &V.
I'd really like to see it at the forefront again, but with that brings the trolls.
On a side note how am I the longest registered user, and I don't post much but I do have more posts than it shows?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13595
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 01:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brian, I recall you from back in the mists of time. The internals of the board software are something of a mystery in terms of the number of posts and the registered date, but most of us aren't keeping score (when you're as old as some of us geezers it gets depressing).

I think I made my first post in 1996, but the counters have been reset a couple of times, and there seem to be some odd glitches. But there are a few people who still stop by occasionally and whose presence here predates my own.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 4264
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.122.104.54
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 02:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The trools! Bring back Tranquil Lisa? Pizza Hut Abdul?

My vote for it not going away and possibly a facelift. I'm heading to 56 this year so this format seems comfortable. Some of the boater forumns I'm on are really hard to follow what's going on. This one is easy.
 

Mike
Senior Member
Username: Hoppop

Post Number: 1141
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 143.165.48.50
Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 - 08:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Count me in as one of those who has mainly disappeared for a number of reasons, none of which related to the format of B&V. I will say that it is good to see a lot of the familiar names still here. I do still browse on rare occaisons.

I kind of liken the format here to that old recliner with duct tape on the armrest...that just feels right. Hey, new doesn't always mean better. Cheers and peace everyone.
 

Josh Vogel
Junior Member
Username: Loopie_beer

Post Number: 90
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.214.75
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 02:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also hit another forum and post there but this forum is my MAIN FORUM for info. This is sad but true... if its answered here, it is CORRECT. Not that the other sites aren't, but when you have so many people offering so many opinions (some of which aren't correct)the myths get exaggerated and the hobby suffers.
I don't post much here because often the questions have been answered or they are WAY over my head and answered by true experts with much more experience than I!
 

Rachael Slater
New Member
Username: Rachael

Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 68.116.107.209
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 08:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As a new member to posting to this board, I have to say my friend RJ Testerman and I have been a part of the board since 2003. He was part of the "peak" year of 2004 as quoted above, and we have learned an incredible education on homebrewing from this board. I regularly visit the hbd archives, doing searches of all sorts to find information on what I am brewing. Recently I began posting, which has been fun and informative.
I could care less about the older format that is used here, in fact, it makes it much simpler to use without all the fancy stuff available through modern sites today. I find the people who post to this board are not only experienced and reliable brewers, but also extremely generous in their information to enhance their fellow brewers' craft.
RJ and I appreciate this forum and would like very much for it to keep on truckin'.
 

dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker

Post Number: 2495
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 99.117.36.145
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm . . I'm wondering now if perhaps we've fooled ourselves into believing this site was sliding into oblivion, when all along it was just making the transition into what we really wanted in the first place. I suppose with the proliferation of specialty sites that cater to narrower and narrower demographics, it was inevitable this site would morph. What we have as a result is a nice, mature, relaxing, easy to use brew site with most of the cream!
 

Dave Witt
Senior Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 1639
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.7.227.140
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 02:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone remember that thread with the "Mexi-chiller"?
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1252
Registered: 07-2007
Posted From: 173.9.91.69
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 03:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HAHAHAHA

Hell Yea...

I did some good hacks of my friend Rick for that

Strange_Poncho_Chiller_Grower.jpg

Strange_Poncho_Chiller_Harvest.jpg
 

Dave Witt
Senior Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 1641
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.7.227.140
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 03:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, I tried a search of the archives for "Mexi chiller" and came up empty. That thread was hilarious!
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13611
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 03:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess I need to plant some kralpen this spring and harvest and malt it for a batch of beer in the fall.
 

Ken Anderson
Senior Member
Username: Ken75

Post Number: 1963
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 76.189.235.103
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My only "complaint" would be the size of the pane on the left. The first thing I do at this site is make it narrower. At least it's movable! Petty, I know, but my two cents.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 13612
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.9.127
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ken, use this URL to display the board without the frames: http://hbd.org/discus/messages/board-topics.html
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 1253
Registered: 07-2007
Posted From: 173.9.91.69
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ken...

That pane is adjustable

Just slide it over
 

Steve Jones
Advanced Member
Username: Stevej

Post Number: 739
Registered: 08-2001
Posted From: 24.158.183.81
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The URL that Bill just posted is what I use, and with a new 1920 x 1080 monitor there is a ton of room. But even with my old pc there was plenty of room to read the content.

I first subscribed to the daily HBD around 1996 or so when the queue was often 2 or 3 days full. A post sent today would likely be in Monday or Tuesday's edition (none sent on Sundays), and I so looked forward to seeing it every day. I remember feeling very inadequate because of the vast knowledge of the posters, but I learned quickly. It was a few years later that I found this 'realtime HBD'. My account says registered 08-2001, but I'm sure I was here before that ... I think there was an issue and we had to re-register.

Anyway, I don't post much anymore but I still visit at least weekly and I have no doubt that this is the best board out there. I don't mind the old-time look, but understand that more flash and more useful user tools would attract more people. I like the fact that nearly every post in nearly every thread is worth reading, so I think that if there was a much larger quantity that quality would diminish.

I am in favor of doing what is necessary to keep the board alive, and moving to a more modern software if feasible. I don't think that trying to attract thousands more users is necessary ... when newer brewers find this place the quality of the information will keep them here.

Sounds like Denny's belief in his tagline is going to get a serious test soon ... I passed that mark 2 1/2 years ago.
 

Josh Vogel
Junior Member
Username: Loopie_beer

Post Number: 91
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.214.75
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't think that trying to attract thousands more users is necessary ... when newer brewers find this place the quality of the information will keep them here.

Steve I agree. The reason I keep checking back here is because of quality of info. Seems like the people on other sites are often more interested in the amount of this posts rather than the quality. Sure, I could have 10000 on any site if I answered every question that was already answered with a "+" Do I do it at times, sure, but usually also include another tidbit that might have been overlooked.
Another thing that I notice about those sites. Sure they get a LOT of posts, however, 90% of them are the same! Seems like nobody wants to take the time to look for an answer before just simply making a post. For me, I read for about a year on how to make beer before I even bought a brewing kit, let alone making the jump to all-grain. Sure, you can get some new brewers here that will ask good questions, however, you will also get some that won't research and there will be 3 posts a day on whether they should use a secondary fermenter or if their beer is ok because it was in the fermenter for 2 weeks and the instructions said one week.
Just my 2 cents and I consider myself a "new" brewer compared to everyone who posts here.