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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2003 * October 30, 2003 * Lager recipe like "Moose Head" < Previous Next >

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How long does malt extract keep?big earl10-13-03  08:36 pm
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William Elliott Pinson (66.82.9.29)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am interested in trying to make a lager that tastes something like "Moose Head" Canadian Lager. Could someone suggest a recipe. Also, will it hurt to add the fining gelaten during the secondary fermentation, rather than at bottling time.
Thanks
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

2 quewstions before we get to your real qusetion, Wiiliam...

1.) Are you set up equipment wise to make lagers?

2.) What part of the Moosehead taste are you referring to? I ask because many people think that the "skunky" flavor that's usually in Moosehead is meant to be there, when it's a flaw. If that's what you're after, there are easier ways to achieve it.

Let us know the answers and we'll take it from there.
 

William Pinson (66.82.9.29)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, the skunky flavor I can do without, and I think I have all the necessary stuff.
Thanks again
 

Andrew T. Deutsch (63.227.24.83)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

make a lager, hop the hell out of it then put it into a class carboy and ferment outsize wo the sun beats down on it and skunks all of the hops

;)

I hear that the Moosehead out of the taps in Saint John is actually quite good... I am unfortunatly not equiped to make lagers at this time so...
 

Doug Pescatore (141.232.1.10)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It has been 15 yeasr since I had one, but I don't remember Moosehead being skunky like Hieny. Back then I really liked the taste, crisp with enough hops to let you know it was not brewed in the US. I guess since I did not know that a green bottle absolutely means a skunked beer, I did not pick up on the overwelming skunkyness that others I am sure will pile on this thread.

-Doug
 

John Shaw (207.43.195.201)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the skunky flavor truly a flaw in the fermenting or bottling process? I'm surprised since there are so many beers (Heineken, Becks, Corona, Moose etc) with the same "flavor". You would think they would correct the problem.
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 06:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John, the skunkiness comes from the interaction of certain wavelengths of light with the mercaptans in the hops to produce the sulphur compounds we think of as skunky. It's most common in beers bottled in green (Heinie, Moosehead, etc) or clear (Corona) bottles. If the manufacturers cared more about quality than marketing, all they'd have to do is use brown bottles.
 

Hornbrau (130.76.96.19)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm glad AB has taken the high road and put quality over marketing. :)
 

Doug Pescatore (141.232.1.10)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I understand the cause of skunky beer, but some companies must do more than others to inhibit this. After 10 years of not drinking Heinies because it was a god aweful skunky beer, I had one given to me while fishing. I found there was a huge improvement and I will now drink Heinies when out fishing or at a bar with limited selection (although I concider Heinie a hot weather beer). Corona has never been good and Moosehead didn't leave the same impression on me 15 years ago that Heinie did.

-Doug
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doug, I think it's just luck of the draw. If you get any of these beers straight from a sealed case, then they're all OK. On airline flights, I usually choose Heinie because it's the best they've got and it comes in a can...a way better beer from what you usually find in bottles.
 

big earl (209.222.26.27)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to me Moosehead has a flavor of "Licking STAMPS or ENVELOPS"
(thats not a skunk type flavor I've tatsed it in cans also)

so add a 1/2lb of "stamp glue" to 2ndry
 

Paul Edwards (199.46.199.233)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Miller Brewing came up with a way to use isomerized hop extracts back in the 50's so they could put "High Life" into clear bottles and not have to worry about skunking.

I recall reading that they'd patented the process, so that might be some of the explanation why others don't do it.

Too bad the markteers win out over the brewers
"But, hey, the green bottles look more high-class"

Also too bad many folks consider the skunkiness "part of that euro-lager" taste.
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

William, glad to hear you've got a clue about brewing lagers! However, since I've never tasted a Moosehead that wsn't skunky, I'm afarid I can't help ya.
 

big earl (209.222.26.27)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FORGET THE MOOSEHEAD

do "Your Father's Mustache CAP"

if you havn't done this yet...you MUST try it !!!!!

(search: The Brewery's libary for Classic Amer. Pils. under styles)
 

4 Hounds Brewing Co. (162.48.138.249)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny is almost correct (and plays a chemist on TV)....

Taken From http://probrewer.com/resources/library/siebel-beeranalysis.php

--------------------------

Mercaptans

Volatile mercaptans are normal components of beer, contributing to aroma, and they increase on exposure to light. All common brewing materials contain some volatile mercaptans.

Japanese investigators claim the "light struck" flavor in beer is due to the presence of the unsaturated sulfur containing substance 3-methyl-2-butenyl mercaptan. They further suggest that this mercaptan is produced by a photochemical reaction between the 3-methyl-2-butenyl group in the molecules of humulones and lupulones and unnamed sulphur-containing compounds present in beer.

Studies have shown that the mercaptan level decreases during fermentation and increases during primary and secondary storage.

------------------------

So just a minor correction to what Denny basically had correct. It is the mercaptans that give you that lovely black and white asphalt kitty smell in your beers. They arise from interaction of UV light (aka sunlight) with the hop components.

Cheers!

Jim
(who plays a chemist at work)
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 07:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, but _only_ on TV! Thanks for the correction, Jim! I'd better get that straight before I take the BJCP exam this Sun.
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.80.243)
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moose head of today is not even close to the Moosehead of years ago. They've gone the mass swill route. They even bought up an excellent microbrewery named Maritime Breweries and ruined it too. Mar Brews had a most excellent Black Pearl Cream Ale, now it is just mediocre at best
 

Andrew Bales (199.64.0.252)
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pinson - If you plan to fine this beer, you must add more yeast at bottling. Fining will remove some color, flavor, body, bitterness and most of the yeast. I use finings only when I have sparged too hot and got astrigency in the beer and am trying to make it more drinkable. The effect is pretty noticable. Once you do it to some beers, you can spot a filtered beer. Alarms go off on your taste buds from them. I don't fine my ales any more. Lagers should lager so long the point it mute. It settles on its own.

I think the clone recipe book has a page on this beer. Don't have it handy. But if I was to guess:

5g all grain
7# 6 row
2# flaked maize
18-24 ibus of Halltraur (Noble hops, Saaz or Tett probably fine too)
1/2oz Noble hops at 15 mins prior to knockout
White Labs German Lager yeast or Pils of WLP or Wy, minimum of 1/2g starter, 1g better, 2g best. Ferment at 40F's or low 50F's. Mash at 148F for 90 minutes and then mash out. Store at low 30F for 2 months prior to drinking. Most lagers reach their peak at 90 days lagering after secondary. I usually primary for a week at 52F, secondary for a month at 48F, and keg and store at 38F for 2 months and start drinking it then. Sometimes they need at room temp rest for 3 days to help finish up during secondary.

Extract? Forgtaboutit. you could do rice can /DME beer but it would be too dark and too heavy and too German. but is your beer. do what you want.
 

danny roy (142.166.254.159)
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey guys,your dumping on my favorite brewer!Actually I never really cared for that stuff in the green bottle either,but if you all come up to the Maritimes you can try a Moosehead pale ale in a brown bottle.It's really good.But like they say in their commercials:"You have to live here to get it".
 

Shawn Duggan (216.195.139.173)
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB - did they ruin the 1749 too? I don't get home too often but liked that one.

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