Topics Topics Help/Instructions Help Edit Profile Profile Member List Register  
Search Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Visit The Brewery's sponsor!
Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * April 13, 2004 * Two final questions before my first all grain. < Previous Next >

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  Start New Thread        

Author Message
 

Kevin Davis (64.136.27.229)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My (homemade, well actually at work) grain mill is getting its finishing touches, and I made a mash paddle yesterday, so next weekend will be my first AG run. I just had two questions to get some opinions on.

1. I realize "strike water" means you pour it over the grain bed, but to pre heat your cooler tun, can you / should you put the "srike water" in, then add the grain when you get down to the correct temp (since you need to stir it in any how)? It looks like it would save a preheat step in the process, however you may have to wait a little for it to get down to temp.

2. I currently only have two 5 gallon pots, so when I split the wort between the two do I also make sure to keep my hop and other additions equally split? Or would this only be important in highly hopped beer for improved hop oil extraction?
Thanks
Kevin Davis
 

Mark Tigges (24.85.170.94)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kevin,

1. This is what I do. I first put my water in the tun, then the grain. After a couple of batches you'll know exactly what temperature the strike water needs to be to get a certain temperature.

2. Well, I would split them up. But I'm not sure if you'd notice a difference. I wouldn't be too careful about splitting them ... just roughly.
 

Bob McCouch (68.81.62.77)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good to see you making the jump, Kevin. AG is incredibly fun once you get the hang of it.

I'll do my best to offer some answers:

1. You can do it either way. Some prefer to preheat the tun by swirling a small amount of hot water around in it, dump that water out, add the grains, and then strike. I've never bothered, and always used Promash to calculate the right strike temp for my grain and the thermal mass of the tun. I used to add the grain and then dump in water. Now I have a direct-fire tun, so it's all irrelevant. The tun is where the strike water is heated, so when it's up to temp, I'm ready. I dump the grain in and then stir like hell to get the doughballs broken up.

2. I believe your second point is on the right track here. With a moderately hopped beer (i.e., maybe not for SSoS or a BW) it shouldn't really matter. There might be a slight extraction difference over what you'd get with a split addition or a single boil, but I doubt it's even enough to be noticable, unless you're pushing the limits on isomerization levels in the boil. You could do it either way... Do what's easiest.

The nice thing about AG is that you can do any of 1,000 things differently from anyone else, and you'll still get beer in the end. It's not like the thing just won't ferment if you add your hops differently than I do.

Your first couple AGs will suck because you'll be scrambling to keep on to of everything. After that, you'll love it. Enjoy!
 

Skotrat (24.61.120.214)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey now,

Mark Knows!

I would rinse the mashtun with the hottest of tap water before pouring in my strike water so that the tuns thermal mass does not eat up your strike waters heat.

Always pour grain into strike water to prevent dry pockets of grain and the dreaded starch balls.

Have fun... Don't worry and remember that all grain is a bunch of fun. Take your time and make great beer.

C'ya!

-Scott
 

Dave Witt (172.148.161.123)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1) I usually fill my cooler with hot tap water and let sit while the mash water heats up. Then I dump out the preheat water and add the required mash water and stir in my grains. After a few batches, you will know what temp to start at with your system.

2) I did this once, on my first all grain. I didn't quite have a big enough pot to boil the full batch in, so I put as much as I could in the one pot and added the hops to that and put the rest in a smaller pot and boiled that til I could fit it in the big pot (almost the end of the boil). My first all grain batch still ranks as one of my best.
 

Dan Listermann (216.23.36.249)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have never understood the need to preheat a mash tun when you can simply add a few more degrees to the strike water which will easily heat both the mash tun and grain in one simple step.
 

Chris Smedley (67.85.185.48)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree. I rinse out my cooler with REALLY hot tap water (I set my water heater most of the way up just for this purpose & to dissolve Oxyclean more readily - gotta love how brewing can alter the workings of an entire house). I then heat my strike water up a few extra degrees and transfer my strike water to the tun. You'll lose a few degrees in transfer and thermal equalizaltion.

I do think the idea of splitting up your wort and hops equally is important. Bob talks about _maximum_ isomerisation levels but that isn't what I'd neccesarily be worried about. For every point higher the density (gravity) of your wort, the isomerization of any amount of alpha-acids will decrease by some (admittedly unknown) amount. Therefore, it is important not only to split up your hop additions relatively equally but also to split up your runnings equally. I'd either run half of my first runnings into each pot and then half of my second runnings into each pot or employ some kind of post-collection mixing to ensure equal gravities in each kettle.
 

Skotrat (24.61.120.214)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Now,

Dan... It does not surprise me that you of all people would say that. However, in many instances it makes perfect sense to pre-heat a mashtun.

Brewing outside on a colder day is a good time to preheat.

C'ya!

-Scott
 

Dan Listermann (216.23.36.249)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scott, I would think that brewing on a cold day would benifit even more from skipping the preheat step and simply adding a few degrees to the strike water. The mash tun would not have a chance to cool in the air after the preheat water was drained.
 

Skotrat (24.61.120.214)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan,

The Poodle Bites....

The Poodle Chews it...

C'ya!

-Scott
 

Bob McCouch (68.81.62.77)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, now that I think about it, I'm not sure that for hop utilization it really matters at all if the hops are split... Chris, I definately agree with you regarding splitting the runoff evenly with equal gravity in each pot. Different darkening of the wort, as well as unequal isomerization due to differing densities, could result from an uneven split.

So lets assume we have 6 gallons (for simplicity's sake) that we are splitting into 2, 3-gallon boils. Both start the boil at 1.040, and hops are added to only one of the kettles. After 60 minutes, we have a combined total of, say, 5 gallons (we'll assume a vigorous boil) of 1.048 wort. Will the isomerization of hop oils differ whether the hops were added to 6 gallons of wort or 3 gallons? The pre-boil and post-boil gravities would be the same in both halves of the batch...

As long as the wort volume isn't so small that some type of "saturation" state is reached before full hop utilization occurs, I'm not sure why the volume would actually matter much.
 

JimTanguay (24.18.218.2)
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Before I got a keg to boil I would do 10 gallon batches in 2-8gallon pots. I agree you should split the runoff to get equal gravities into each pot. As far as hops go I would/did split the hops but only by eye so it wasn't excact but pretty close. It always worked just fine for me. Also I would pour the hot wort into the two pots and never had a problem with HSA. Good luck on your 1st all-grain!
 

Dave Witt (172.151.129.233)
Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 02:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan,

I've used both methods and for me, I've found that if I don't preheat, my temps continue to drop throughout the mash, even with a higher strike temp (especially the first 30 min). When I preheat, the temp is pretty much dead nuts for the whole time.
 

Dan Listermann (216.23.36.249)
Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 02:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dave, I don't see any reasoning behind the temperature dropping throughout the mash due to the lack of preheating. I have using temperature to compensate for preheating for years with no problem. I just mashed 65 pounds of malt yesterday with the temperature maintaining at 151 for two hours. I set my strike water to settle in an empty mash tun at 165. When mixed with grist, it comes out very close to 150-152 every time.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.