| Author |
Message |
    
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 183
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 06:10 pm: | 
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I started my cicada beer yesterday. For five gallons I used 8 pounds of Briess Pilsner malt, an ounce of Cascades for bittering and 1.06 pounds of cicadas picked just after they emerge from their "shells," toasted and ground up. I did an extended protein rest of 120 minutes and decocted to conversion. It is now fermenting away with Coopers.
Assuming everything goes well, it will be clearly labeled at the Beer and Sweat Party Aug. 21. |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 3104
Registered: 01-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 06:14 pm: |
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TOO MUCH INFORMATION!!! 
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
|
Hophead
Advanced Member
Username: Hophead
Post Number: 860
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 06:21 pm: |
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Uh, aren't those the annoying locust type creatures that emerge from the ground every 19 years? And, you are toasting them and brewing with them?
Okily Dokily then....
Extended protein rest, nice. |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 3105
Registered: 01-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 06:31 pm: |
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God, I missed the decocted part... a decocted cicada beer....what's world coming to???
(Message edited by denny on June 25, 2004)
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
|
TexanBrewer
Member
Username: Scott
Post Number: 126
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 06:39 pm: |
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New meaning to the term, "fly sparge."
Wow, Dan. That's unique alright.
Scott |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 184
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 06:51 pm: |
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I figure that if you can't intentionally risk a really crappy beer every 17 years, you are taking brewing too seriously. The wort's taste was rather unremarkable but the aroma had a seaweed character to it. |
Mark Simpson
New Member
Username: Marks
Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 07:05 pm: |
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Dan, congratulations for your award from the AHA Board recognizing your many contributions to the hobby. The name of said award escapes me as I drank too many Imperial IPA's before and during the awards banquet. Too bad you couldn't make it out to receive it in person, Vegas was an absolute blast. |
Doug Pescatore
Advanced Member
Username: Doug_p
Post Number: 833
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 07:09 pm: |
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Send a bottle or two off to the producers of Survivor.
I thought all the peat moss and dung in Guiness was bad.
-Doug |
PalerThanAle
Advanced Member
Username: Palerthanale
Post Number: 985
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 07:30 pm: |
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I made a strawberry wheat one time, but didn't have any strawberries so I used a Charm's red blow pop that I found in the driveway. I need to breakdown the hard candy so I did a double dirty decocted sucker mash.
PTA |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 185
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 07:48 pm: |
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Thanks Mark. The award was a complete surprise and a considerable honor to me. I could not be there because we had some very difficult family problems. I trust everyone had a good time!
Dan Listermann |
Art Beall
Junior Member
Username: Artfull
Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 08:27 pm: |
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Dan,
The cicadas are due up in ne Ohio this fall or is it next year? Anyway, could you back calculate the pppg of the bugs? Do you think a pale beer might highlight any color contribution of the little fellows? After 17 years, all these guys want is to mate...I wonder if they would act as an aphrodisiac...
...Beer&Sweat should be real fun this year...
Congrats on the award Dan!
Cheers,
Art |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 90
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 08:29 pm: |
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I can't remember now, but who was it who used Skittles in a fruit beer? And didn't Randy Mosher once brew a batch with Froot Loops?
Yes, Dan, congrats on the award and your contributions to homebrewing over the years.
(Message edited by BillPierce on June 25, 2004) |
Wykowski
Senior Member
Username: Bigearl
Post Number: 1063
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 08:51 pm: |
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the Skittle-brau article in Zymurgy was borrowed from "the crazy enginneer"
http://www.crazyengineer.net/post/1/3
just the thought of "cicada-brau" makes me want to hurl  |
David Beckerdite
Member
Username: Darkislandfan
Post Number: 181
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 09:10 pm: |
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First Mushroom beer now  Bug beer.
What is this world comming to? \ |
Adam W
Intermediate Member
Username: Adam_w
Post Number: 265
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 09:37 pm: |
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Seems to me that cicadas would pretty much be 100% protein and fat. What's the point to toasting them? Just so you could grind them? If that's the case, why not just throw in a pound of ground beef into the mash? Burger-Beer anyone? |
JT
Junior Member
Username: Jt100
Post Number: 251
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 09:46 pm: |
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From what I've read, I believe toasting them helps prevent a stuck sparge. |
Adam W
Intermediate Member
Username: Adam_w
Post Number: 267
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 10:06 pm: |
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Hmmmmm....I guess I'm not current with the cicada-beer literature..... |
Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman
Post Number: 1739
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 12:03 am: |
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I'd be interested in seeing pics |
Hophead
Advanced Member
Username: Hophead
Post Number: 861
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 12:12 am: |
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Art, I believe this is the year in all states, though you have a valid point, as Ohio usually does things a little bit slower than everyone else...  |
Malbec
Junior Member
Username: Malbec
Post Number: 96
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 12:25 am: |
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I would NOT be interested in seeing pics. Isn't this what the aztecs might have done because they didn't have the technology to grow and malt barley? Or somebody way back then.....Hmmmmm maybe it would have been more appropriate if you had used sorghum as your base. OOOOps! Forgot to leave spaces in between my points, might be to hard to read. |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 186
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 12:59 am: |
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The point of toasting them was to be able to grind them I suppose. It seemed like a good way to process them from an ascetic perspective. Hey, I got feelings too!
FYI toasted and ground cicadas have a pungent seaweed stink. |
Malbec
Junior Member
Username: Malbec
Post Number: 97
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 01:16 am: |
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Quite the Fishermann is Mr. Listermann? |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 188
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 01:23 am: |
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Don't fish. |
Joe Alf
Member
Username: Joea
Post Number: 157
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 02:22 pm: |
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A couple years ago at a club brew event,as I filled the mash tun with the free malt,a friend looked over my shoulder and cried "Buuuuugss!".
The malt was loaded with some kind off grain weevils.I just brewed with it.It came out fine and even won a Best of Show. |
Brandon Dachel
Senior Member
Username: Brandon
Post Number: 1083
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 03:50 pm: |
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I'm cool with knowingly using unprocessed honey in meads (likely contains all kinds of bee parts). But I cannot understand any reason, *other than for shock value*, why anyone would put cicada shells in a beer.
Experimentation with intentionally edible and flavorful/aromatic things is one thing. (Spices, various plants, etc). But bugs? They don't add anything other than noteriety. |
David Woods
Junior Member
Username: Beericon
Post Number: 323
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 03:58 pm: |
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I wonder if using termites would give off a woody flavor?
David |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 189
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 05:14 pm: |
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Using cicadas was just my way of celebrating the 17 year cycle. I hope to do it again in 2021, maybe 2038, but I figure that there is a good chance I will have to give it up in 2055 when I will be 101. |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 190
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 05:18 pm: |
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It just occured to me that some brewer told me that the 17 year cicada cycle was a "myth" that had been "busted." He didn't say why or how, but he was very insistant. I hope he made it to Cincinnati recently and he would have seen what his "busted myth" looked and sounded like.
Dan Listermann |
Mark Bushey
Junior Member
Username: Spiff95
Post Number: 45
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 09:28 pm: |
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Chocolate covered ants, locusts, etc. are all edible; palatibility is another question altogether! |
Marlon Lang
Intermediate Member
Username: Marlonlang
Post Number: 290
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 11:40 pm: |
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BBB,
For the moment let's assume that you are on the up-and-up. Here in Louisiana, we have two different types of cicadas. One likes pine trees and is very short; the other likes any thing else and is longer. I would assume that they both have a 17 year cycle and both "sing" this time of year. In any event, it would be like brewing with malt with weevels - lot's of protien. But, I write this after drinking a six-pack of Saint Arnold "Elisia" IPA, feeling no pain. So, I think you are pulling our legs. |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 2034
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 02:45 am: |
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hee, hee, truly you are feeling no pain, lang, for you have addressed your post to the wrong contributor  |
Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman
Post Number: 1740
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 11:01 am: |
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and frankly....my feelings are hurt |
Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman
Post Number: 1741
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 11:03 am: |
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I too feel this to be crapola |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 191
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 02:34 pm: |
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BBB, what aspect of this thread do you feel is "crapola?" Please be specific. |
Malbec
Junior Member
Username: Malbec
Post Number: 98
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 03:02 pm: |
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You know, the part about putting cicadas in your mash. That part. |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 192
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 03:06 pm: |
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Do you think he doubts that I actually did that? If so, he needs to say so. |
Brewzz
Member
Username: Brewzz
Post Number: 171
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 07:11 pm: |
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We have Pine grubs here in the Sierra.They are pretty large and taste like pine nuts. I wonder what kind of flavor they would contribute to a nice light ale?I guess I won't have the time to try it as I'm outta here in about 3 weeks.Oregon or Bust!!
Cheers,Brewzz
|
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 193
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 08:03 pm: |
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Brewzz, I would hold off on the grub beer until I can report back on my cicada beer. I have rather limited expectations regarding bug beer.
Dan Listermann |
Dave Witt
Intermediate Member
Username: Davew
Post Number: 408
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 12:16 am: |
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For those who are wondering, there are "dog day" cicadas and there are periodical cicadas. The ones presently infesting the eastern states is brood X periodical cicada, the largest brood. There are many different broods of periodical cicadas which emerge either every 13 or 17 years in different regions of the country.
The dog day cicadas are the ones that come out in late July and August. There are many broods of these also, appearing every year, although they take 4-7 years to develop.
Our 17 year cicadas here in the Chicago area will be here in '09, as they last made an appearance in '92. |
Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman
Post Number: 1742
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 02:08 am: |
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I think anyone brewing beer out of bugs is out of his freakin mind!! You...historically....are a known troller.
Sorry Dan but I have a hard time believing in your brewing knowledge after seeing some of your methods. The tall glass cylinders in a well lit room??? The light is around the corner??? Even the most newish newbie knows to keep his beer away from the light. Lets not start on the bag o beer in front of a fan. Come on!!!
I'm done now and have no further comment |
metalman
New Member
Username: Wastedmetal
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 06:32 am: |
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Metal I live AGAIN!! on Jun-28-2004 at 12:49 AM RST @ 207.229.170.58
has he posted about that before? does he offer any credible proof he actually used cicadas in beer? I have a feeling he is lying about some part of what is going on there.
Metal I live AGAIN!! on Jun-28-2004 at 01:03 AM RST @ 207.229.170.58
I mean if he is really nut enough to add bug to his beer then whatever, go for it. But he doesn't talk like he knew what he was doing. I would personally interject that if you wanted to brew with bugs, there might be more appetizing choices like ants or mealworms? Cicadas are certianly edible, wouldn't you like to taste the bug before you used it? I'd like to see proof of that. Bi-partisan witnesses, digital documentary. After that if it ends up an infection bomb, at least listerman will be truthfully just batshitcrazy. |
Craig Johnson
Member
Username: Californiacraig
Post Number: 188
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 08:07 am: |
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Hey, just for shits-n-giggles I would drink a bug beer. That is I would try it second as long as somebody else tried it first. Notice I said try not finish. |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 198
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |
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BBB, are you calling me a liar? If so, just spit the word out. It is spelled L-I-A-R, but be prepared to defend your charge. |
Tom12
New Member
Username: Tom12
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:30 pm: |
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I've always fancied making that old recipe which calls for a chicken to be used in the fermentation! |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 199
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:38 pm: |
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Give it a shot, Tom! It seems that some people have a hard time coming to grips with unorthodox methods. Any straying from the tried and true, even just for fun, is viewed as a threat in their minds. |
Hallertauer
Member
Username: Hallertauer
Post Number: 198
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 02:45 pm: |
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Hey wait a minute Dan,
It seems to me that I can remember you saying some unflattering things about Freddrick and his unorthodox methods.
Do you see Freddrick as a threat? |
Doug Pescatore
Advanced Member
Username: Doug_p
Post Number: 834
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 03:50 pm: |
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Hallertauer,
I think the big difference is that Dan is brewing a beer from start to finish. He is using known methods, but adding a very strange adjunct. Fredrik was fermenting something while trying to observe the unobservable and then using implied data to produce a theoretical model.
Dan, if you want to put bugs in your beer go right ahead.
-Doug |
David Woods
Intermediate Member
Username: Beericon
Post Number: 325
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 04:56 pm: |
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Tom12,
The chicken ale, or cock ale would do little for flavor, but more for mouthfeel I believe. Just like any animal bones in stew, it would thicken the soup or wort to give it more viscosity or thickness.
But I also believe that cicadas would do nothing for beer except add a certain novilty.
Dan, don't tell anyone who tries it and see if they know or can taste any difference in the beer. Knowing first would definatly screw up the tasting for most people.
Anybody out there, would you want to know first what your getting yourself into when someone hands you a pint of exploritory ale? Or would you rather taste first and then know? Or do you trust your brew buddies to use "normal" ingredents?
David |
PalerThanAle
Advanced Member
Username: Palerthanale
Post Number: 987
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 05:03 pm: |
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I would rather find out after I drank it ONLY if the brewer drank it first - and as long as it didn't have any illegal ingredients... I have enought bad habits.
PTA |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 201
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 05:03 pm: |
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Doug, you make a good distinction. I did put cicadas in my beer. Anybody who sees what I did to my beer as a some sort of threat, needs to do a little introspection.
David, I will know if the cicadas change the flavor much. I would not give the beer to anyone whitout a warning. There is an issue regarding cicadas and shellfish allergies. |
Doug Pescatore
Advanced Member
Username: Doug_p
Post Number: 836
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 05:09 pm: |
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David,
You said a mouthful with your comment about chickens changing the mouth feel to cock beer!
Dan,
I strongly believe that you use of cicada in your beer is weakening my marriage!
-Doug |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 202
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 05:25 pm: |
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Doug, sorry about that. Here, I promise to not make cicada beer again for 17 years.
Dan Listermann |
Craig Johnson
Member
Username: Californiacraig
Post Number: 191
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 06:22 pm: |
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Cock beer? My imagination runs away from that imagery. I would not drink it just in case it was not made from chicken. I wonder if it tastes like chicken though? |
Adam W
Intermediate Member
Username: Adam_w
Post Number: 270
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 06:34 pm: |
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Tall glass cylinders are no joking matter. Tommy Chong is in jail right now cause of them! |
Steve Funk
New Member
Username: Tundra45
Post Number: 16
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 06:38 pm: |
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Good Gawd! Dan is a known positive contributor to this and other brewing forums. It is obvious [to me] that he knows brewing equipment and methods. If he says he made bug beer, I'll give him the benefit with very little doubt. If you don't believe he made it, fine, then ignore any references to it. But to say you don't believe him on a forum like this nearly calling him a liar. If that's what you think, say so and be an adult about it. Dan is a big boy and can defend himself. So why don't all you doubing-thomas' put up or shut up. Rant off. |
Patrick C.
Member
Username: Patrickc
Post Number: 128
Registered: 01-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 07:49 pm: |
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Dan, have you asked the people at Fear Factor if they want to use your bug beer on the show? |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 203
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 09:05 pm: |
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Patrick, considering I toasted, ground and mashed the bugs, I doubt that the beer is disgusting enough for competitive grossing out. |
Vance Barnes
Advanced Member
Username: Vancebarnes
Post Number: 774
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 09:16 pm: |
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"I doubt that the beer is disgusting enough for competitive grossing out."
Yea but you could use a live one for a garnish. Why does that part of the show always come on when I'm trying to eat dinner?  |
Mark Tigges
Member
Username: Mtigges
Post Number: 105
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 09:19 pm: |
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Steve, I have to agree. Some Dan bashing occured about a month ago or so, it was disgusting. I'm surprised Dan still posts here, he's a more patient man than I. (So thanks Dan, for hanging around, I for one appreciate your contributions.)
And for whomever it was who called Dan a "known troller" ... known to whom? I certainly don't know it, nor would I ever believe. If you have an opinion, state it as such. Don't speak for me. |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 206
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 02:20 am: |
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I just sampled the still fermenting cicada brew a second ago. It is disapointingly undistinctive. Perhaps I over processed it by toasting and performing an extended protein rest. Maybe when the yeast settles out an interesting flavor will become evident. |
David Woods
Intermediate Member
Username: Beericon
Post Number: 327
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 02:33 am: |
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There is still time Dan, maybe you could put a bug in every bottle, just like fine tequila!!!
Oh, and I must have missed the Dan bashing a month ago. If it started from a thread like this, I am sorry I missed it. I've had a few good yucks from this one!
David |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 207
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 02:36 am: |
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The cicadas are nearly all dead here in Cincinnati. I have 17 years to think about recipe improvements. |
metalman
New Member
Username: Wastedmetal
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 02:57 pm: |
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I called him a liar. duh. Where is the proof dude? pictures? |
Dan Listermann
Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 218
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 03:06 pm: |
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No pictures Metalman. A Blotarian mentioned seeing my bag of frozen cicadas at the June meeting on rec.crafts.brews. Denny Conn might remember reading that. Somehow I doubt that that will pacify you.
And thank you for calling me a liar, I will try to remenber that. |
Brews and Views Archive 2004 
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