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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Archive through August 18, 2004 * Using ale malt for lager brewing < Previous Next >

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brett matthews
New Member
Username: Brettj

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have brewed around 5 or 6 pils/lagers over the last 3 years (I'm an ale nut)and have always noticed a pronounced DMS presence in all of them. My problem is that I can't seem to cool the hot wort quickly enough or get it down to a pitchable temp even in the middle of winter. I use a cooling coil immersed in the wort. Will I get good and authentic results using ale malt? I have noticed when making APA's with pale malt only, the colour is not far off lager and with a shorter boil I thought I could keep the colour down for lager brewing. Any ideas?
 

Dan Listermann
Intermediate Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 340
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lagar vs. Ale is far and away defined by the temperature of fermentation rather than any ingredient. Go ahead and use pale ale malt.

Who knows?

Dan Listermann
 

Brandon Dachel
Senior Member
Username: Brandon

Post Number: 1156
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How long is it taking you to cool down your wort? Slow cooling is one of the contributing factors to excessive DMS production. I believe boiling with the lid on is another.

How would you characterize the DMS? Aroma? Flavor?

What temp do you ferment your lagers at? What strain of yeast are you using? How long do you lager for and at what temperature.

> I have noticed when making APA's with pale malt
> only, the colour is not far off lager and with a
> shorter boil I thought I could keep the colour
> down for lager brewing.

Hmmm...this is a little confusing...how long are you boiling? There is more to lagers than simply a light yellow color.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 233
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some malts do result in more DMS in the beer. As I understand it, the DMS in Rolling Rock is primarily due to the malt. That said, I have not noticed high levels of DMS is the CAPs or cream ales I have brewed with six-row malt. I'm not aware of the malt supplier used by Rolling Rock.
 

brett matthews
New Member
Username: Brettj

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The DMS is definately the 'creamed corn' that I have read about. It seems I can pick it up in the flavour but is that because the aroma is so prominent? I ferment lagers at 10c (50F)and usually use Wyeast Bohemian. I make sure I have a good strong yeast starter going and have never had any probs with ferments reaching a respectable FG. Primary takes 10 or so days and I lager in secondary for 30-45 days, depending on what other brews are on the go. It takes me up to 1 hour to get the wort down to 20c (48F) at which time I pitch the yeast and this is where I think things may be going wrong. Is that too high to be pitching lager yeast? I understand that there is more to lagers than a 'light yellow colour'(particularly when it comes to beers like those from Pilsen) but I'm am still mindful of keeping beers in style.
 

Dave Witt
Intermediate Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 453
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 03:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My annual Helles/dort type batch that I do to kick off lager season (last year) had a big DMS flavor/aroma that I can only attribute to Dingeman's pils malt, which is one of the lighter colored pils malts available. I read somewhere that the lighter the malt, the more DMS precursors are present. This, combined with trouble maintaining a boil, (ran out of propane and the other nearly empty propane tank froze up, limiting the flow of gas, giving a weak boil) I figure gave me the problem.

Make sure to have a good, vigorous boil and cool the wort in a timely manner. Your Immersion chiller should cool the wort to below 170F (IIRC), where DMS will not be produced.

The type of yeast has nothing to do with DMS.