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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Archive through October 15, 2004 * Pliny the Elder clone < Previous Next >

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Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am planning to brew a 10 gal batch of this next weekend based on the recipe in BYO. 36 oz of hops in a 10 gal batch! Calculates at over 300 IBU's. Yeah!!!!

Has anybody here brewed any of the double IPA recipes from that issue? I've never even had the Pliny the Elder so taste comparison will be difficult. Any of you left coasters want to send me a sample?
 

Beerboy AKA The Jolly Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Matfink

Post Number: 487
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

can you post the recipe please Vance.

The last IPA I made should be about 150IBUs or more, used about 1lb in 5 gallons
Real Ale Crusader and all round Hophead
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 1055
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's the recipe from BYO scaled up for a 10 gal batch.

24.40 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)
0.56 lbs. Crystal 40L
1.72 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt
2.00 lbs. Corn Sugar



3.50 oz. Simcoe 12.00% Dry Hop
3.50 oz. Centennial 10.50% Dry Hop
6.50 oz. Columbus 14.20% Dry Hop
2.00 oz. Simcoe 12.00% 0 min.
4.50 oz. Centennial 10.50% 0 min.
2.00 oz. Columbus 14.20 30 min.
2.00 oz. Simcoe 12.00 45 min.
1.00 oz. Chinook 13.00 90 min.
5.50 oz. Warrior 15.60 90 min.
3.00 oz. Chinook 13.00 Mash hop

White Labs WLP001 California Ale

Mash @ 152 for 60 min.
 

Guy C
Member
Username: Ipaguy

Post Number: 118
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I recently brewed the Pliny recipe and brought 5-gal. to NCHF (Northern CA Homebrewers Festival) this past weekend. Word traveled fast and people kept coming over to try it. The response was very positive, and the keg is now just about toast.

You need to collect a lot of wort to make up for all that gets lost to hop absorption from those large late additions and dryhops. Vinnie's NHC handout said to collect 8 gal. pre-boil for a 5-gal. batch. That's what I did, and I still wound up with a bit less than 5 gal. into the keg. The dryhop period should also be 2 weeks.

The actual IBU's in a Pliny batch that was tested was 95-100 according to Vinnie. This is one of my favorite DIPA's, but it isn't available in bottles at this time.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 1064
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The response was very positive, and the keg is now just about toast.

That's why I'm doing a 10 gal batch I'm probably only going to be able to get 7 gal/5 gal pre-boil as I'm using a keg to boil in. 14 gal with the no foam stuff is about it for me. Guess I can add some more runoff as it boils down.

Anybody got any figures for how much liquid is absorbed by an ounce of pellet hops? 13 1/2 oz of dry hops is going to absorb a bunch of liquid. Did you dry hop in the secondary or in the keg Guy?
 

Tom Fries
New Member
Username: Tfries

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can attest to the fact that Guy's Pliny was great. Good job.

On the way home from the festival, we stopped at Russian River Brewing and picked up a growler of Pliny. Last night we compared my clone with the real thing. While the two beers were similar, mine was not exactly like the real thing.

Color: Pliny is a bit lighter in color
Nose: Mine was more floral with a hint of caramel.
Bitterness: Both had a smooth bitterness, not too sharp.
Taste: The caramel I noticed in the nose also was present in the taste in mine. The Pliny was very neutral in the malt.
Hop Flavor: The dry hopping is different between the two with the Columbus really coming through in mine. The Pliny seemed less citrusy and more piney.

While I feel that mine is a good beer, it can not hold a match to the real thing. The real Pliny is just an awesome beer.

I am thinking that the caramel I am detecting in mine is either related to the malts I used (Marris Otter), Invert Sugar instead of Corn Sugar, or a flaw in my brewing technique.

Vance, I dry hopped mine in the secondary for two weeks. When I kegged, there was still a lot of hop particles in suspension. I am thinking that an additional week secondary with the hops removed would help clear out the debris.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 05:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess with that many dry hops the flavor/aroma wouldn't diminish much in the keg. So sounds like a 3 week secondary with the dry hops for only the first 2 weeks. If I can wait that long to try it. Getting ready to dry hop my Bigfoot clone thats been aging so maybe that will get me by in the mean time.

The clone I'm doing only calls for .28 lb of crystal 45 in a 5 gal batch. Is that what you used Tom? Doesn't seem like that would be very noticable. Think I'll go with the Breiss 2 row instead of the TF Optic I was considering based on your comments.

So no bottles available. Well a growler would do
 

Guy C
Member
Username: Ipaguy

Post Number: 119
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 09:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vance, I dryhopped in a 6.5 gal. carboy as secondary.

Tom, thanks for the compliment. I wish I had made it back to camp earlier so I could have tried your DIPA and DIPA-infused BBQ chicken. I noticed the same differences in mine that you mentioned between yours and RR Pliny. I also used Crisp Maris Otter so I suspect the slight caramelly character is coming from the malt. I notice that quite a bit when using Maris Otter in "West Coast Style IPA's" as a base malt, even with very little crystal added. The 90 min. heavy rolling boil I did probably contributes to it as well.

I can't remember what pale malt Vinnie had laying around the brewery, but I bet it's Great Western or something similar that burns real clean. Yes, the Columbus definitely dominates the aroma in the clone I made too, whereas the actual Pliny has less of that and is noticeably more piney. I thought the Simcoe was going to provide that, but maybe there wasn't enough of that and too much Columbus. I also had a higher (1.085) OG than Pliny and a higher FG (1.020). I used Stone's yeast that someone had given me, but I had also used it in two previous batches.

When dryhopping, does anyone know which hop(s) give beers that distinctive pine character? I've tried many different types, but I haven't yet found the one that gives the real piney aroma.
 

Bill Aimonetti
Member
Username: Zuchinnicat

Post Number: 241
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guy,
To me large qtys. of fresh Simcoe pellets for flavor and aroma is like sucking on a pine cone.
 

matt_dinges
Intermediate Member
Username: Matt_dinges

Post Number: 277
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I know that I should just brew this recipe and find out how it is and that Vinny is a great brewer...but what is the logic of using cara-pils and sugar? Seems like you are making up for one or the other by using both?

I've got my freshops ordered and plan on doing one of these hop monsters soon!

Cheers
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 1076
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wondered about the sugar/cara-pils as well. One other DIPA recipe uses the combo. Most of them just use cara-pils and some crystal and/or Munich combo. Wouldn't need cara-pils for head retention with all the hops in there. So it must be for body/mouthfeel which as mentioned is counterbalanced by the sugar addition. ???
 

scott jackson
Member
Username: Kroc

Post Number: 141
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I brewed something similar but not quite the same. For 10 gallons my grain bill was 28 lbs pale malt and 1 lb victory. OG was 1.082. I used Tomahawk, Warrior, and Glacier hops. It will be called 3 Scalps IPA. I even put hops in the sparge water. Promash said mine had 180 IBU's.
 

Bill Aimonetti
Member
Username: Zuchinnicat

Post Number: 242
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know a local micro that adds carapils to make up for the reduction in body caused by the sugar. The sugar is used primarily because he wants to keep the brew legnth up and still get the high gravity. Its a MT capacity issue.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 1082
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 05:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, that makes sense. Guess RR did it for that reason on their original recipe and carried it over to the homebrew version?
 

matt_dinges
Intermediate Member
Username: Matt_dinges

Post Number: 278
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, nice call there...that makes total sense. I was thinking of it from an artistic standpoint and not a technical one.

It would actually help me on a recipe of this sort on the efficiency end. Since I batch sparge, my eff. drops some with higher OG beers...or I have to run-off a bunch more from the mash and extend the boil. Using sugar would help by making up those lost points and it is much cheaper than DME. I could squeeze more into my tun, but still my efficiency would be low, so I can save a few pounds of grain if I use sugar.

Just my 2004 shipment from Freshops and I'm ready to rock!

Cheers
 

Dan Listermann
Advanced Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 605
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Matt, MT capacity is why I used so much sugar in my 100 gravity ( actually 98) Imperial India Pale ale. I could never get that kind of gravity in a 26 gallon MT to make 1.5 BBLs. It seems to have settled out at 1.015. Had I used extract, even United Canadian, It would have come out sweeter.

Dan Listermann
 

matt_dinges
Intermediate Member
Username: Matt_dinges

Post Number: 279
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 04:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not a bad FG! I don't think you want these beers to be so thick like a barleywine and finish 1.025+

I'll be shooting for 1.015-1.020.

And FWIW, I was looking over my promash notes for some old batches and it looks like I've made a couple of IIPAs before! I used them as my Holiday beers, calling them Hoppy New Beer! My logic at that time was I wanted a Barleywine that was lighter, not an IPA that was bigger! I used honey in one and it was awesome(FG1.014, 9%ABV), it didn't use 18oz of hops though, only 9.5...

Cheers
 

Guy C
Member
Username: Ipaguy

Post Number: 121
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 07:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll try to remember to ask Vinnie if he does it for mash tun capacity or some other reason next time I talk to him.
 

matt_dinges
Intermediate Member
Username: Matt_dinges

Post Number: 280
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 12:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guy,

I've always though Chinook hops were piney/resiny. I'd be interested in Vinny's comments on the grain bill.

Cheers