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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2005 * Archive through May 05, 2005 * Recirculation - necessary during the entire mash? < Previous Next >

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Vince Turley
Member
Username: Vince

Post Number: 163
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it critical that I continue to recirculate after dough-in if I am "tuned in" to the proper mash temp? Am I gaining any additional extraction by continuing to recirculate the mash?

Assume for the sake of discussion that I am doing a single-infusion mash (no steps). If my MLT temps do not need to be adjusted then is there any reason to recirculate?

I really can see how some recirculation helps, as it "sets" the grain bed and produces about the clearest wort I have ever seen. But, my 10 gal. Gott cooler generally does a good job of maintaining temps, and only after 50-60 minutes does it begin to drop a degree or two... can I merely recirculate after dough-in to set the bed and mash temp, and then turn the pump OFF until needed to hold temps? Seems like I could save 30-40 min. run-time on my pump by just letting the mash setů

Thanks all,
-Vince
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 1074
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 07:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Where did you get the idea that you need to recirculate except to set the grain bed just before starting to sparge?

Dan
Listermann Mfg.,Co. www.listermann.com

 

Vince Turley
Member
Username: Vince

Post Number: 164
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 07:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm... well, I have been AG brewing for over 2 years without a pump, and prior to getting the pump I just set my mash and let it ride for 75 minutes. Generally speaking, I got the pump to move hot liquids around; I added the recirculation loop to help stabilize mash temps.

Hence my question... is there any value to recirculation outside temperature stabilization?
 

Connie
Intermediate Member
Username: Connie

Post Number: 361
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 08:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vince unless you're doing a step mash, I don't see the value of running the pump once the mash temperature is stable...I just stir with a big spoon and let it sit.
 

ScottDeW
Intermediate Member
Username: Scott

Post Number: 292
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 08:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I do continuous circulation because I can. It does create a crystal clear wort when it comes time to sparge. That said, it would be foolish to say it was a requirement or made better beer than an infuse-and-sit methodology.
Scott
http://texanbrew.com
 

Mike Mayer
Intermediate Member
Username: Mmayer

Post Number: 384
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also recirculate continuously, but only because I have a RIMS with a PID controller to maintain the temperature. In some of my wheat beers, if I start seeing flow problems that are indicative of an impending stuck mash, I just turn it all off and only heat when absolutely necessary.
 

Joe Rovito
Member
Username: Joez8

Post Number: 146
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I stir and stir and let it sit. Only recirc during the last half of mash. If I turn the pump on too soon, I get stuck, every time.
 

MJR
Member
Username: Mjr

Post Number: 156
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 07:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Once you've got your grain bed set and your temperature where you want it, leave the mash alone. It's that simple.
 

Ben Schy
Member
Username: Bens

Post Number: 136
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Even simpler than that: mash in, set the temp on your pid. Done. Works for me.
 

Pittman
New Member
Username: Brewmaster808

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 05:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vince, I thought you might find this article by Dave Miller interesting. http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/miller.html
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 2321
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also recirc throughout entire mash...because I can and my system design works around it. No real need or benefit other than crystal clear wort.
Bellybuster Bob
www.bellybuster.netfirms.com
 

DJ Short
New Member
Username: Djshort

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recirculation probably also yield an increased efficiency due to fluid movement/agitation inside the mash that will increase the enzyme activity and sugar extraction.
 

Vince Turley
Member
Username: Vince

Post Number: 165
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great article Pittman, and helpful inputs from the collective - thanks all.

The real basis of my question (which I probably should have stated), is that I am trying to determine if I really "need" a PID (as Ben describes) to automatically control recirculation temps (and therefore mash temp). The addition of a PID/Thermocouple is an added expense, and frankly adds to the complexity of the system... not only is it one more thing that can go wrong/break, but it does require a power source which also leads to additional items that must be addressed. I have recently decided to convert my HLT to electric, and plan to control the heating element with a ETC; adding yet another electrical sub-system (PID/Thermocouple), is something that I would rather hold-off for now.

Really appreciate all the inputs, this has been very helpful as I navigate process and hardware for my new system. I think I'll go with recirculation on an "as needed" basis (temperature stabilization, vorlauf) for now, and see how that works.

Again, I really appreciate ya'lls feedback and insight.

-Vince
 

Pete Mazurowski
Member
Username: Pete_maz

Post Number: 124
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, definitely a good article, Pittman. I found it interesting that the article implies recirculating will reduce lipid transfer to the kettle/fermenter, thereby possibly inhibiting yeast growth. I thought I'd just seen somewhere recently, someone was making the claim that too much recirculation would increase lipid transfer. Was I imagining this?
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 2323
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vince...PID's look cool...you MUST get some
Bellybuster Bob
www.bellybuster.netfirms.com
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 2953
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you are a technophile and into gadgets, a PID and automated RIMS/HERMS is high on the geek scale. But if you are more of the KISS school, you can recirculate manually as desired (as I do). It's up to you.
 

Peter Roman
Advanced Member
Username: Lilbordr

Post Number: 692
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I must say that I love my pseduo HERMS system. I employ the same system that B3 uses, aka S.M.A.R.T. I just have a pid control my pump on/off, which circulates mash water through a coil submerged in my hlt. It doesn't run all the time like a true HERMS, but it does a great job. The only time I recirc is when I need to raise the temperature. It really comes in handy during the winter months. Mashing in a keg is no longer a problem when ambient temps go as low as 10F.

Cheers,
Peter Roman
 

Vince Turley
Member
Username: Vince

Post Number: 167
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB-

I realize that resistance is futile... someday even I, too, may have PIDs in my control panel (haha!). My current focus (ahem, besides brewing great beer), is to electrify the HLT, and implement a stir-bar in the HLT to eliminate temperature striations.

Oh, and also to finish my control panel that includes flashing lights and switches that even