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Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 3368
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 03:12 pm: | 
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Okay, my Leffe clone is bubbling away, and soon I will have a nice yeast cake of WLP530, reportedly the Westmalle yeast. So, I'm thinking about brewing a dubbel.
A while back I was recalling how much I enjoyed the dubbel I had at the Pizza Port in Solano Beach during a trip to San Diego. Someone pointed out to me that Tomme Arthur's dubbel recipe is on the White Labs web site (scroll down):
http://www.whitelabs.com/recipe.asp?Category=3
This recipe looks pretty good, except the hop schedule seems wacked. When plugging it into Strangebrew, I get 9 IBUs! That can't be right, can it?
So, I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for a hop schedule for a 1.068 dubbel? - I do have both Styrian Goldings and Liberty in stock. |
Doug Pescatore
Senior Member
Username: Doug_p
Post Number: 1458
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 04:21 pm: |
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Chumley,
It has been a long while since I did a dubbel, but I do remember thinking "wow where are the hops" and it came out great. I am reasonable sure I used Styrian Goldings.
-Doug |
The Gimp
New Member
Username: Gimp
Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 04:58 pm: |
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Throw in a half ounce of Saaz at flameout and it looks good. |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 3371
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 05:26 pm: |
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I know dubbels are not very hoppy, but 9 IBUs?!? Heck, my bocks are at least 20 IBUs. Are there really brewers who brew 9 IBU 1.068 dubbels out there?
I just fired off a e-mail to Pizza Port, hopefully Tomme will give me the answer. |
Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes
Post Number: 1738
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 03:44 pm: |
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I have a Leffe clone ready to rack to secondary and was thinking about doing a dubbel this Friday to put on the yeast cake. Looking to hear the reply so I can get ingreadiants myself. |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 3384
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 04:07 pm: |
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I have not received a reply yet. I'm hoping to brew this this weekend, so I may have to wing it - my general inclination is to up the amounts up, in the same proportions and times, to get between 20-25 IBUs. I can't bring myself to brew a 9 IBU beer. |
Bill Aimonetti
Intermediate Member
Username: Zuchinnicat
Post Number: 375
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 04:59 pm: |
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Here is a table with the specs for the trappist beers. Westmalle Dubbel is 24 IBUs.
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Geoff Buschur
Advanced Member
Username: Avmech
Post Number: 817
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 05:06 pm: |
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And in HTML for the Microsoft haters:
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Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 3389
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 08:00 pm: |
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Thanks for the info. I see that by using 0.75 oz. of Styrian Goldings at 90 min, and 0.625 oz. of Liberty at 60 min, I will get a 24 IBU dubbel. So unless I hear otherwise, that's what I'm going with. |
Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes
Post Number: 1742
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 02:55 pm: |
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I'm going to do basically the same. Won't know the exact wts. until I pick up my hops at lunch and see what the alpha % are. I'll adjust to hit 24 IBU's. |
Jeffery Swearengin
Advanced Member
Username: Beertracker
Post Number: 774
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 04:38 pm: |
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Just for the record, I've hopped my last two Dubbels @ 20-22 IBU's using a combination of Styrian Goldings & Saaz and judges remarks were that it was too hoppy. 
CHEERS! Beertracker
"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers
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Okierat
Junior Member
Username: Okierat
Post Number: 77
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 05:38 pm: |
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Its not the "beer" too hoppy tracker. Its you that's too hoppy
(Message edited by Okierat on July 13, 2005) |
Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes
Post Number: 1745
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 06:20 pm: |
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BT,
Did you use both the SG and Saaz for bittering? Saaz is often used for flavor and aroma which would be out of place. Also the IBU level by itself is not the whole story. If there's not enough malt to balance the IBU's then it would come across as too hoppy. |
Jeffery Swearengin
Advanced Member
Username: Beertracker
Post Number: 775
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
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That's my thought. I used SG for FWH; added Saaz @ 30 & finished with SG @ EOB. Next time, I'm going to shoot for the bottom of the IBU scale & no FWH or late additions. So, maybe 9 IBU's isn't that far off? 
CHEERS! Beertracker
"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers
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Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes
Post Number: 1746
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 06:15 pm: |
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I noticed that in the Pizza Port recipe that all the hops are added at 90 min. Didn't say how long a boil. I haven't played with utilization to see what happens if you add them a little latter but I usually boil for 90 min but add hops at 60 min. Guess I'll get the hot break and then add the hops right after. Still gonna shoot for 24 IBU with strictly bittering hops.
Probably the FWH and aroma hops that got the too hoppy comments. |
Bill Aimonetti
Intermediate Member
Username: Zuchinnicat
Post Number: 376
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 07:33 pm: |
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My guess is that the pizza port recipe was scaled down to 5 gallons by dividing the ingredients without taking into consideration the greater hop utilization in the large kettle.
Beertrackers dubbel may have been too hoppy for the judges because of the FWH and late addition rather than overall IBU level.
The 24 IBU level of Westmalle dubbel seems ok to me. It should be a good level for a dubbel as long as it isn't on top of some perceived bitterness from roasted grains like special B.
The BJCP guideline for Dubbel says 15 - 25 IBUs so who knows? |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 3408
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 07:46 pm: |
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Not all the hop additions are at 90 min, Vance...the Liberty is at 60 min.
I don't want to screw this up, but I really liked the Pizza Port dubbel...better than the bottled Westmalle...soo, maybe a compromise is in order...0.625 oz. Styrians at 90 min, 0.375 oz. Liberty at 60 min (if anyone's wondering why I use these strange increments, its because my digital scale measures in 1/8th oz. increments). That will give me 17 IBUs, right at the bottom of the scale. |
Jeffery Swearengin
Advanced Member
Username: Beertracker
Post Number: 777
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 09:22 pm: |
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I'd have to definitely agree with your praise of Pizza Port's Dubbel! Although, I haven't found anything better than Westmalle's Tripel...maybe a fresh Bruges? 
CHEERS! Beertracker
"From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." ~ Saint Arnold of Metz (580-640) - Patron Saint of Brewers
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Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes
Post Number: 1747
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 02:55 pm: |
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My SG are only 4% and the Liberty only 3.3% so I'm using 2 oz of SG and 1 of Liberty both for 90 min. Only coming up with 23 ibu's that way even with the Liberty for 90 min. Only 8 more min. before I get to go home and brew it  |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 3423
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 07:38 pm: |
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So how did your brew session turn out, Vance? Did you taste the wort, and if so, did it taste bitter enough? I would have liked to have brewed the dubbel this weekend, my leffe clone turned brite on Friday, but unfortunately my in-laws were/are in town.  |
Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes
Post Number: 1752
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 09:58 pm: |
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It came out good. The hydrometer sample tasted about right. Kinda hard to tell how the bitterness will be with all the sweetness still there.
The only "problem" was that I had to put blow off tubes on both 7 gal fermenter buckets. Of course you never know you need to do that until after it's spewed. Luckily I was there when the first one did.
The sample of the Leffe Blond as it went to secondary was great. Nice spicey peppery flavor from the yeast. First time using the WL abbey strain. I think I like it better than the other Belgian ones I've used. |
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