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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2006 * Archive through March 09, 2006 * Am i screwed? < Previous Next >

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Busted Still Brewery
Advanced Member
Username: Brewlabs

Post Number: 737
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.167.255.30
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm going to do a 10 gallon patch of approx 1.068 pale ale. I pulled my white labs california vial out this morning to start a starter tonight. I noticed it said 1 vial per 5 gallons.

all i have is 1 lb of DME. i was going to do a 1/2 lb water to 1/2 lb dme. is it possible to step this starter up in a few days using another 1/2 lb water to 1/2 lb dme? Or will this do more harm to the yeast than good?

it's been a little over a year since i last brewed (reinventing my system) and i seem to be a little rusty.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 4780
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 03:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There are other sources of starter wort in addition to DME. Malta Goya (or Malta India or Tiger Malt, etc.) is one. Another would be apple juice (make sure it has no preservatives; pasteurization is not a problem) with an added multivitamin tablet. If the gravity in in the 1.030-1.040 range, there should be enough sugars for the yeast.
 

Paul Edwards
Advanced Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 960
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.229.31.223
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 03:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd just go ahead and make a starter of 1 lb DME to 1 gallon water, and then just use that.

Are you going to be fermenting the 10 gallons in a single fermenter, or splitting the batch into two carboys for fermenting? You can split the starter between two fermenters easy enough.
 

Busted Still Brewery
Advanced Member
Username: Brewlabs

Post Number: 739
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.167.255.30
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i have 2 15.5 gal sabco fermenters. primary in one, secondary in the other.
 

Paul Edwards
Advanced Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 962
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 70.229.31.223
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I generally make a 3/4 gallon starter for every 5 gallons of a beer in the 1.068 OG range.

You might be underpitching a little, but probably not enough to worry about with a 1 gallon starter for a 10 gallon batch. Or like Bill said, stretch your DME with another source of fermentables
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2953
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 62.20.8.114
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My simple ballpark estimates for the standard biomass yield tells me that 1 lbs DME in the above case would give you about 0.7 million/ml/P, probably fine provided you aerate properly.

I think 0.7 vs 1.0 alone is not cause major problems provided all else is good.

The way I prefer to secure the important aeration, is to make a small activation step of healthy yeast in a small amount of wort with a repeated pre-aeration on brew day. If you prefer, combine a pre-aeration with your ordinary wort aereation and I think it will make a big difference performance wise at least.

About flavour though, I am convinced things are more complicated and I am not qualified so just ignore this post.

/Fredrik
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 4781
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure anyone is truly qualified to discuss the flavor implications of various pitching rates. The variables are many and the effects subtle.

As for Fredrik's statement that a pitching rate of 0.7 million cells per milliliter per degree Plato of wort gravity is probably acceptable (not optimal), I'd agree, at least in a general way.
 

Busted Still Brewery
Advanced Member
Username: Brewlabs

Post Number: 743
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.167.255.30
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"If you prefer, combine a pre-aeration with your ordinary wort aereation and I think it will make a big difference performance wise at least."

I thought i read somewhere that you shouldn't aerate wort that has already had yeast pitched into it. So, are you suggesting that I re-aerate my starter after it has finished, aerate the wort of my batch and then pitch the starter?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 4782
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.229.8
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 08:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There's a difference between making a yeast starter and fermenting a batch of beer. The two processes have different goals, the former to increase the population of healthy yeast and the latter to produce the characteristics of the desired beer. Aeration after active fermentation has begun, although it promotes yeast growth, also tends to contribute to oxidation. This is usually not a problem in a starter; you can always pour off most of the liquid and pitch primarily yeast sediment.
 

Busted Still Brewery
Advanced Member
Username: Brewlabs

Post Number: 744
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.254.16.214
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

nice! thanks bill. i've just started boiling the water for the starter.

i'm so excited about this batch, it's like the feeling before my first all grain batch.