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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2007 * Archive through January 25, 2007 * Further reflections on old extract and cidery flavors. < Previous Next >

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Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3938
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.59.245
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have often said that the reason that sugar is associated with cidery flavored extract beers is that the extract is stale and sugar does not cover this flavor as well as DME. I am starting to believe that this is wrong. If the cidery flavor is a nutrient - yeast reproduction problem, the reason that extract batches made with DME taste better, or are at least less likely to taste cidery compared to sugar, is that the DME, being less susceptible to staling, provides the nutrient that is no longer in the stale extract.

Dan

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Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3560
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 213.114.44.230
Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan, I too think that may be one possibility. I think the different ways you've suggest lately have something to it.

I never tried to estimate the actual amino transformations during aging, but I think some amino acids may kind of degrade during staling, decreasing the FAN level, but I think as tweak the relative compoisition of various aminos.

I've seen papers where for example TCA cycle acids, are produced in different amount depending on the amino source. It is also known to be a coregulation between these things and the sugar spieces. Offering a possible exploit for the influence of sugar other than just dropping the FAN.

I still think the explanation are several cofounding factors, and we are starting to figure them out but not yet understood exactly how they interact.

/Fredrik