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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2009 * Archive through April 10, 2009 * Is Beano needed for big beer? < Previous Next >

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Tex Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Texbrewer

Post Number: 415
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.203.59.252
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 06:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I brewed a Belgian double IPA. OG=1.102. I pitched Belgian Ardennes WY3522, which I stepped up twice to about 1.5L. The second day I pitched WY1056, which I stepped up once to 0.75L. Fermented at 62-65F for 4 weeks in primary and 1 week in secondary. I roused the yeast several times. For the last week (secondary), I added a small amount (1/4 tsp, rehydrated) of Lalvin K1-V1116, which is suppopsed to be good for stuck fermentations, and then the same amount again at bottling. Been at 65-72 for a week in bottles.

FG was 1.029 at bottling. (102-29)/102 = 72%. Have I calculated that correctly? Wyeast 3522 specs say 72-76% attenuation with a temp range of 65-85 (I was below that most of the time). WY1056 is 73-77% with a temp range of 60-72.
After a week in the bottles, a very small amount of carbonation formed, which was not unexpected for a beer this big. But the stuff is so thick, it tastes like hoppy syrup. Do I need to empty the bottles all back into the carboy and add Beano or something to bring the FG down more? I've never had a beer with an FG this high. Of course, I've never brewed a beer with an OG this high, either.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10113
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.192.193
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Your starter was not very large for a beer with an O.G. that high. You don't mention whether you used any brewing sugar nor the details of your mash regime. It's possible 72 percent apparent attenuation is as much as you are likely to achieve.

At this point I wonder if heroic measures such as Beano are going to have the effect you wish. I consider Beano something of a last resort. It's rather easy to create thin alcoholic rocket fuel rather than the better attenuated beer you wish.

Next time pitch a bigger starter (more like 3 liters for a beer that big), increase the amount of sugar in the recipe (15 percent would not be out of line) and convert at a low temperature. All of these will result in better attenuation.
 

Tex Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Texbrewer

Post Number: 416
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.203.59.252
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I pitched 2.25 L, so not that much less. And I added the Lalvin later on, although admittedly very little.

Mash was about 152-154, I think. 1 lb Belgian candi sugar was added at the end of the boil--not sure how to calculate percentage when sugar is mixed with grains. I had 11.5 lb Maris Otter, 6 lb Pils, 2 lb wheat malt, 1 lb crystal 20L, and 1 lb candi sugar in 5 gal. Oxygenated well with O2.

Are you suggesting the Beano last resort is probably too risky and not worth the trouble at this point? Just stick with a brew that has a whole lotta body?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10116
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.192.193
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 10:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You said your starter was stepped up to 1.5 liter. I assumed that was the starter size.

In my experience adding a packet or two of dry yeast to a slow or stuck fermentation doesn't do much good. The yeast has already metabolized the easily digestible sugars; what remains is stubborn indeed. If you really need to restart fermentation, my recommendation is to wait until you have another batch of beer; siphon the underattenuated beer onto the healthy primary yeast cake of the other batch and add 1 lb. of white sugar.

But your beer is already in the bottle. I certainly wouldn't try to resurrect it now, even with Beano.
 

David Lewinnek
Intermediate Member
Username: Davelew

Post Number: 483
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 209.6.217.208
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would stick with the brew that has a whole lotta body.

Also, that recipe looks a little more like a tripel than a dubbel to me (higher gravity and lighter color), although 1.102 is a high OG for either style.
 

Tex Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Texbrewer

Post Number: 417
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 70.128.225.123
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 01:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lot of misconceptions here. Bill, I pitched 1.5L of WY 3522 on day 1. Then on day 2 I pitched 0.75 L of WY 1056, for a total of 2.25L. This is part of the "style" (see next paragraph). Plus the dry wine yeast is tolerant of high alcohol and supposedly good for stuck fermentations. But I only added part of a packet. Le Freak is 10% abv (which mine is close to, except for the under-attenuation) and 100+ IBUs (which mine definitely is).

David, this is a double IPA, not a dubbel. It is in the style of Green Flash Le Freak, in which they combine their Belgian tripel and San Diego double IPA styles. Hence the two yeasts, and the tripel-esque malt/sugar bill, but with a whole bunch of west coast hops.

Green Flash Le Freak is a truly outstanding craft beer that represents what creative brewing is all about, IMHO. They are way outside the box here, and it combines the best aspects of two very disparate styles. Yummy. If you are reading this and can get this beer, DO IT.

I guess since it's in the bottles and has already been in the fermenters for 5 weeks, I'll just let it bottle age for a while and see what happens. Next time, I'll pitch more yeast, Bill (I promise!), and I'll mash at <150.
 

Patrick C.
Advanced Member
Username: Patrickc

Post Number: 866
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 99.170.160.145
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 05:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An FG of 1.029 for a 10% alcohol beer doesn't sound too crazy to me, but I like them a little sweeter.

If it's just too sweet for you, try blending with a macro brew to cut the body. Get a sixer of Coors light or something else with no body and blend it. Try a 50/50 mix to start- you'll drop the alcohol and IBU to sane levels :-) but it will still have plenty of flavor. Or if you're really into heresy just cut it with water.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 2145
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.253.156
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 07:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What Bill said. What happened sounds exactly like what should have happened under the circumstances.

Beano seems to have developed a reputation as an acceptable, "normal" brewing tool in some circles. It's not. It should only be used as an alternative to dumping an undrinkably sweet beer, and you probably won't like the result anyway. The real fix is to not let yourself get into that situation in the first place by pitching big, oxygenating well, proper recipe formulation, etc.
 

Dave Witt
Senior Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 1281
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 12.2.161.11
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would just store the batch for a year or two and then you'll have a nice barley wine.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5778
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 63.118.227.254
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would do what Dave Witt said.
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2823
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.41
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 06:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Tex, I'm a huge DIPA fan, and if you want a lower FG, then add 1 (ONE) beano tablet and let it sit in secondary for a couple of weeks. Sure, next time you can make a gallon starter, but I also prefer a drier finish and there's nothing wrong with a little enzyme to get the finish you want.

Purist flamers don't waste yer ammo...
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 10124
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.192.193
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 06:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No flames, HH. Your minority opinion is duly noted.
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2824
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.41
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 06:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, if you want, you could brew a 1.040 pale ale and ferment it on your dipa yeast cake. this will finish around 1.006 (swag), and you could then blend the two.

This requires more patience...
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2825
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.41
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Minority eh? I'm ok with that.
 

PaulK
Advanced Member
Username: Paulk

Post Number: 794
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 68.63.203.31
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used Beano once in a stuck fermentation. I won't be repeating that mistake.
 

Paul Erbe
Senior Member
Username: Perbe

Post Number: 1280
Registered: 05-2001
Posted From: 64.233.251.195
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 09:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BEANO is for @ss gas.
 

Onebarrel
Member
Username: Onebarrel

Post Number: 194
Registered: 12-2002
Posted From: 99.255.158.69
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Me and a brewing buddy split 10 gals of a 1100 wort for a barley wine and each was fermented on our own terms... I used W1728 and he used US56 -Both 2-3L starters.
When we racked to secondary mine was 1022 and I was happy, his was 1028 and he was worried... he resorted to dumping some amylase enzyme solution on top of his batch - I bottled at 1022 and his finished at 1008 !
Mine was yummy and his was hot with a ton of fusel which has not gone away even after 3 years in the bottles.
He got rid of that stuff and does not use it anymore prefering to use the "wait and see method" - time is always on your side, especially with big beers.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 2147
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.32.253.156
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I rarely even take an FG reading anymore, preferring to just watch the beer and let it tell me when it's done. Why get so hung up on a number? The yeast don't give a damn what number you think they should achieve.

I recently made a Mild and deliberately added quite a few unfermentables for body and flavor. It only achieved about 58% ADF, while the yeast advertises 70%. I feel gypped! Should I dump it? Should I resort to using non-barley-derived enzymes that don't work in the same way as the barley enzymes to get to that magic 70% number?

Or, alternatively, should I accept and embrace the fact that given the setup I provided, everything worked exactly as it should have and the beer turned out great as a result?
 

Tex Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Texbrewer

Post Number: 418
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 70.243.119.39
Posted on Sunday, March 22, 2009 - 03:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hophead, I don't believe I'm gonna be uncapping all the bottles and putting it back into the fermenter with a Beano tablet. Too risky; you're outvoted, I'm afraid. And I don't really want to dumb this down by blending, as this is to be a really big beer. Plus, once it carbonates, it is likely to be just fine--share a bottle between two people. It's been in the bottles 2 weeks now and has very little carbonation, but I fully expect it will take a month to get there. It's actually tasting pretty good, with lots of hop flavor to balance the sweetness. I'll send you one.
 

The Gimp
Member
Username: Gimp

Post Number: 169
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 208.5.44.21
Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just be careful it does not overcarbonate.

I bottled a batch of trippel that 'finished' high after almost a month. Three months later I came home to have my son tell me "dad it smells like beer in the stair well" (next to the clothset the beer was in).

Yup, Bottle-Bombs!
 

Tim Wi
Senior Member
Username: Riverkeeper

Post Number: 1035
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 75.65.167.226
Posted on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 12:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An FG of 1.029 for a 10% alcohol beer doesn't sound too crazy to me, but I like them a little sweeter

"Howard Johnson is right"
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2827
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 167.4.1.41
Posted on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey now, I would obviously not advise un-bottling for just about anything. My advise was a general one, and dumping in a bunch of amalayse enzyme is NOT the same as adding a single beano tablet to reduce the FG. It clearly has to be a controlled reduction.