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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2011 * Archive through March 01, 2011 * Good Beer < Previous Next >

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Bierview
Advanced Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 905
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 67.82.202.67
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 11:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After years of sampling many different commercial and micro varieties and styles available to the public, I think I am drinking some pretty good beers that come out of my modest setup. Anyone else feel the same?
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12579
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 12:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've always been partial to my beer, and it has gotten better over the years. But it's not perfect and there's room for further improvement.
 

michael atkins
Advanced Member
Username: Mga

Post Number: 813
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 70.59.169.79
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 12:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Absolutely!

Before this hobby I was not liking anything commercial, especially the BMC crap, advertised on TV "Lite" beers that have infiltrated the market and available everywhere. Then one day probably back in 95 or 96, I tasted a Samuel Adams Larger on a business trip. It was wonderful.

It reminded me of what beer was supposed to taste like many years ago when I was growing up. Believe it or not Budweiser, Schlitz, Falstaff, Grain belt, PBR, and many more used to be good beer (actually PBR still is). This was before the "Lite phenomenon" came about. That year the kids gave me a Mr Beer Kit for Christmas ( I only made one batch with that kit), then it was "all-grain" and from there the rest is history.

I got interested in the various styles and probably tried all the Micro beers and Foreign Exports available around here (for research of course), and honed my craft to make beers as good as or "better" then the store bought versions.

Today I can honestly say that I enjoy every beer that I make so much better than that available commercially. Obviously it is due to the freshness of the ingredients. Possibly it's due to the investment in keg systems that we home brewers have, which beats the hell out of the bottled varieties purchased commercially. But I also think that the "non pasteurized" result of our product makes a better offering.
 

Marc Rehfuss
Intermediate Member
Username: Marc_rehfuss

Post Number: 273
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.200.130.254
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 01:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The American IPA I'm racking to keg as I type is pretty awesome. I can brew good general (non sour) Belgians, German lagers, American styles...etc but I still have a hard time brewing a great English bitter for example. Still, my setup does generally produce very good beer.
 

Tim C.
Member
Username: Timc

Post Number: 212
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 67.149.191.77
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 01:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have become quite the "beer snob" with my own beers being preferred. I seldom buy beer and when out, only drink craft beers.
 

Connie
Senior Member
Username: Connie

Post Number: 1597
Registered: 10-2000
Posted From: 98.230.141.204
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 05:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not a beer snob. I'll drink most beers when out, but I do really appreciate my own brews.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 2734
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 71.234.45.166
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 06:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I brew some damn good beers. I brew some crap. Over the past 5 or 6 years, the good ones have outnumbered the crap most of the time. I happy with that.

Tonight at brewclub meeting, I put my Flanders Red up against a vintage Rodenbach Grand Cru from '07. The Rody whupped my ass. But my Amarillo and Simcoe IPA held its own against some very hoppy beers from Avery and Victory. And my robust porter tap-danced on the face of a couple of commercials. So I can run with the big dogs, even if I'm occasionally smelling dog butt.

All I can say is: this beats the hell out of where we were in 1983, when Red Dog was considered esoteric!
 

Bierview
Advanced Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 906
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 67.82.202.67
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and Red Dog is still around.......
 

Steve Ruch
Member
Username: Rookie

Post Number: 227
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 209.240.206.210
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeh, I think I brew some pretty good beer, but then I am brewing the kind of beer I want to drink.
On the other hand one of the guys at work (when I still had a job) said one of the beers I gave him was the best he ever had.
 

Michael
Senior Member
Username: Hoppop

Post Number: 1136
Registered: 03-2002
Posted From: 143.165.48.50
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 03:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bier - I generally feel the same, but I am always learning....I nail some, and have some just "OK" batches. I find that really dialing in on a recipe and making it consistently is very rewarding. For example, I have yet to brew what I would consider a great Am Brown Ale. Part of it is getting my water dialed in...so, that is the fun part of the hobby for me...experimenting and working to perfect a style...at least for my tastes.

Cheers.
 

Graham Cox
Senior Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 2660
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.15.105.173
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 04:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If any batch I brew doesn't meet or exceed the quality of a comparable commercial product, I feel as though I have failed. And I do occasionally fail. Like Bill, I still feel that I have much to learn.
 

Tim Polster
Intermediate Member
Username: Bassman

Post Number: 412
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.149.43.111
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I find there is something about commercial packaged beer that often leads it to have less flavor than home brewed beer. Is it the pasteurization?

The flavor seems muted compared to the up front flavor of homebrew. This does not apply to a lot of imported beers but they have their issues with travel. Nor does this apply to brewpubs like BJ's. I think their beer has a lot of up front flavor.

I have had the good fortune of travel to Europe and the beer on tap from the "local" brewery in Germany is the best beer I have ever had. It tastes like professional homebrew!

We all like our own beer but I think it really does taste better than I can go buy. So I see buying homebrew stuff as being worth the time and expense because the beer I would want to buy is going to cost a lot anyway.

I wish BJ's or the like would allow you to take a corny up to the brewery and fill it up. That would be the only way I would dial back the homebrew.
 

Josh Vogel
New Member
Username: Loopie_beer

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.138.116
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 01:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I too feel the same about my homebrew. I have had many people tell me its the "best" they ever had. I know that is highly unlikely unless they only drink swill but is also nice to make a beer other appreciate.
It is funny how this hobby turns you into a beer "snob." When you buy commericial beer you can really start pointing out the off-flavors (whether attended to be there or not) and the grain/hops being used.
Now my wife, she HATES going on brewery tours with me. I am always asking technical questions using specific terms that others in the group don't understand. She simply tells them that I'm a "beer nerd." I am, but I also want the tour guide to know that I'm not just another beer drinking fool who thought it would be "interesting" to see the big tanks and beer come out like magic!
 

Nephalist
Intermediate Member
Username: Nephi

Post Number: 450
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 71.129.43.197
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 07:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tim,
I checked your profile. I didn't know BJ's was in Texas. Apparently they're countrywide now. I do like their beer. I also have hits and misses. And when I think they're misses, people will tell me it tastes okay. So I discredit their opinions. It's awkward to taste someone's handcrafted product and critique it, but I find other homebrewers to be honest.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 2737
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 71.234.45.166
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 03:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I find face-to-face comments from friends and even other homebrewers to be fairly useless. They tend to fall into two camps: "I don't like dark beer." and "Wow, this is amazing!" No one likes to be really critical to another person's face.

That's why almost all my batches go to brewclub, where they get judged blind by a dozen or more highly experienced beer judges in a controlled setting. There is still some "grade inflation" -- I expect that a beer will score 3 to 5 points higher at meeting than it would at a competition -- but I can account for that and the comments are honest. There are National judges and professional beer journalists in the mix, keeping everyone honest.

Brewclub also means that my beers are tasted side by side with those of some of the best homebrewers you'll ever meet plus some of the best commercial beers made. Nothing exposes flaws like comparing several beers of the same style in a short period of time.

This can be pretty hard on the ego. I've had some beers trashed which I thought were pretty good. It hurts to see everyone head for the dump bucket before they've finished half a sample. But the comments and suggestions have definitely made me a better brewer.
 

Tim Polster
Intermediate Member
Username: Bassman

Post Number: 415
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.149.43.111
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 07:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think we are overly hard on ourselves as homebrewers. Sure we make great beer in our own opinion but for that last 10% or so you need controled environments.

Speaking for myself, I brew out in the garage. When you compare that to modern brewery setups there is no way I am going to completely match the beer, especially from a technical standpoint. And I do not expect to. A mediocre homebrew is still a lot better than many BMC beers in terms of enjoyment. Technically is often another story.

I like BJ's pale ale the best btw.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12586
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've judged three times at the final round of the NHC, and I can say that the best homebrew is the equal of (and occasionally even better than) the finest commercial beers. So it's not that homebrewers aren't capable of brewing truly exceptional beer, or that they lack the necessary equipment and facilities. It may be that commercial beers are more consistent and on average of higher quality, but at its best homebrew holds its own and shines anywhere.
 

Marc Rehfuss
Intermediate Member
Username: Marc_rehfuss

Post Number: 275
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.200.130.254
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I recently judged the prelims for the Napa Homebrew Challenge and had an imperial stout that was easily as good or better as any of the top uberhyped commercial versions (e.g. Dark Lord). I was floored. I think I gave it a 44 or 45, probably should have scored it a bit higher. It needed a bit more age... maybe.

(Message edited by Marc_rehfuss on February 18, 2011)
 

robert rulmyr
Senior Member
Username: Wacobob

Post Number: 1064
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 216.188.241.17
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 08:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I love my beer! It takes real will power not to over indulge. My guests also love it.
 

ChriSto
Advanced Member
Username: Christo

Post Number: 762
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 68.51.179.166
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2011 - 11:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My setup is also quite modest, but I like most of what I make.

Still, I was quite happy with my $9 pitcher (surprised it was a full-size) of DFH 60 Minute IPA with pizza last night, so I have no problem drinking a quality craft brew out on the town.

I love variety, so I'm typically looking for something different that what I have on tap at home at the moment (a Black IPA, Vanilla Mild, Schwarzbier, and American Barleywine) and is probably one of my key reasons for brewing.
 

Jeff Preston
Intermediate Member
Username: Jeffpreston

Post Number: 416
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 207.161.110.12
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If I could brew some of the brews that I love to buy (American and English ales), I would never buy another beer. I like 90% of my homebrews but am always in awe of some of the commercial ones. (take note that only some of them). I do think there is a lot of crap out there.
 

Dave Witt
Senior Member
Username: Davew

Post Number: 1547
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.7.226.155
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 02:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I like my beers in general, but, I have found that the beers that I brew and don't like are only styles that I don't like. Over the years I have weeded out the ones I'm not that fond of and now I brew mostly only what I like, and rather well, too, thanks to what I've learned here in the last 11-12 yrs.

There are some clunkers in there though, like the porter me and my buddy brewed last Nov. We dropped the temp in the freezer to drop the yeast after fermentation and that caused suck back through the blow-off that added about a qt of SaniClean to the batch. I think I can taste it.(tartness)
 

JimTanguay
Advanced Member
Username: Pizzaman

Post Number: 766
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 24.19.35.172
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 03:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It seems to me that the last couple of years commercial breweries tried to copy home brewers in making the hop monsters. Home brewers do them better in my opinion
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12598
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 04:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure Vinnie Cilurzo and Sam Calagione were trying to copy homebrewers, and I'm not sure most homebrewers do them better. But I think I know what you mean about not all commercial hop-dominated beers being great.
 

Bierview
Advanced Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 910
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 69.125.118.54
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I started this post not because I have always made an incredible product but rather that we are very fortunate to have taken on this hobby. About having to learn more? I have loads to learn and perfect.
 

JimTanguay
Advanced Member
Username: Pizzaman

Post Number: 767
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 24.19.35.172
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, I will admit that Vinnie Cilurzo makes some of the best hoppy beers better than most homebrewers. When I run across any of his tips on brewing them I pay attention. Here in the Pacific Northwest the shelves are filled with over the top hoppy beers and many of them are not that great and I enjoy mine better.
Out here there is not much middle ground between really hoppy beers and the regular American lagers. Sorry I got a little of topic
 

Paul Sarkisian
Junior Member
Username: Arkham

Post Number: 42
Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 208.125.158.18
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When my dubbel comes out as desired (50/50), I wouldn't trade it for anything.

HOMEBREW PROS:
1. Brew exactly what you want.
2. Brew styles not available locally (I've never seen altbier in any store in my area).
3. Price (OK, forget capital cost and time).
4. Variety on tap (commercial offerings are paltry for sub-half keg sizes).
5. Brewing is fun.


COMMERCIAL PROS:
1. Consistency.
2. Convenience (no 6 hour brew days).
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Advanced Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 985
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 173.51.245.89
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 01:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, you can't compare price without comparing capital cost and time. A lot of us brew enough where we're still cheaper considering cost of capital, unless you're buying the top of the line brew system and glycol jacketed conical fermentors.

But even at the average wage in the U.S. which I believe is about $22 an hour, your 6 hour brew day means an additional $132 dollars per batch. And that's not including prep time, bottling and/or kegging time.

On top of that, a lot of the guys who homebrew, especially on this board, have advanced degrees, and command salaries much in excess of $22/ hr. The only way you're saving money homebrewing is if you're unemployed, retired, or making just above minimum wage or less.

That's why it's a hobby. I consider the time I spend homebrewing leisure time--it relaxes me--even though some of it is hard work.
 

Bierview
Advanced Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 912
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 69.125.118.54
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I doubt the guys slinging mash are commanding $22/hr.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12604
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Those who work at the large breweries are making $22 an hour, although they're not "slinging mash" in the conventional sense. Most of these operations are highly automated.

You can be sure, though, that those who work at small microbreweries and brewpubs aren't earning that kind of money. There are a lot of brewers making $400 a week and all the beer they can drink.
 

Bierview
Advanced Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 916
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 69.125.118.54
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess my comment was pointed toward the microbrew guys. Although, I am surprised at $22/hr elsewhere.
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Advanced Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 991
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 173.51.245.89
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I pulled the $22 out of my head, I wasn't talking brewery pay per hour, I was talking average U.S. wage for any occupation. I just googled, and it says median household income in the U.S. is around $46,000. That's roughly $23 an hour if only one person in the household is working.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12606
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kevin, two wage-earner households are the norm.
 

Steve Ruch
Member
Username: Rookie

Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 209.240.206.202
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 03:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just where are these $22 an hour jobs? Where are any jobs?
 

Paul Sarkisian
Junior Member
Username: Arkham

Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 208.125.158.18
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wouldn't be brewing if I was in it to save money...I estimate my capital costs (per ounce produced) to be about equal to my ingredient costs over the life of my equipment.

However, since I ran out of homebrew early this winter, I found myself spending ungodly money on commercial beer to feed my (and my wife's) Belgian ale habit.

My 2011 brewing season started in the snow this year.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12608
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Steve, I also ask where are the $22 an hour jobs. I certainly bill more than that for most of the work I do, but unfortunately my expenses (only some of them are tax deductible) often reduce my hourly gross income to less than that figure. Despite my advanced degree, as Kevin puts it, there seems to be a lack of full-time work available.

I do agree that homebrewing is not about saving money. When I made well over $22 an hour I seemed to brew more rather than less. I suspect being single at the time also had something to do with it.
 

Josh Vogel
New Member
Username: Loopie_beer

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.138.116
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 11:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

+1 Bill. I know when I get paid the money I hide from my misses ALWAYS goes to beer supplies! The more money in my pocket the more I spend! (please don't tell her!)
I have friends ask me all the time if it saves me money. I tell them it's tricky due to start up costs plus grains/kits, etc. But, you know when you pay about $8-$10/six pack... that adds up quickly, especially if you got a drinkin' habit like me!
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Advanced Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 993
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 198.199.191.4
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, you could be right about two wage earner households being the norm, but those households also tend to earn more than the median income. I don't like to use wikipedia as a cite, and prefer to use the source material, but this one earner household has work to do and I'm short for time right now.

You'll see from the chart that the median household has 1.35 earners, and the earners don't go above 2 until you're above $92,500 for the household, which still puts each earner in the $22/hr range.

Actually, you may even be wrong about two-earner households being the norm. Reading over this chart, it looks like over 30% of households average one earner or less. Again, you don't average 2 earners or more until you're in the top 19% of households.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

(Maybe we should take this to World Expressions?)
 

Josh Vogel
New Member
Username: Loopie_beer

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.138.116
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 11:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm guessing brewers make fairly decent money. Here's a job listing for New Glarus Brewing Co.:
Production Brewer
New Glarus Brewing Co. is adding a permanent full time second shift
brewer to our established and quickly growing team. Work in a positive fast
paced environment.
Food Production or industrial experience required. Pasteurization,
Filtration o Filler experience helpful.
Competitive wages, medical, life, paid vacation and 401K benefits.

It doesn't say what the base pay is but the benefits look decent!
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12611
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 12:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kevin, I'll grant you that with the number of single-person and single-parent households, I'm probably wrong that two wage-earner families are the norm. Perhaps I should qualify that and say that in a majority of households with two adults under age 65 both of them are working. Of course that doesn't say how many hours, and I would think that only in a minority are both members earning $22 per hour or more. But that's probably enough on this subject for this discussion.

Josh, from what I know about New Glarus, they are paying full-time employees a decent wage, although probably not $22 per hour for anyone but management. However, you might be surprised at just how low the pay is for brewers at very small microbreweries and brewpubs. I'm really not exaggerating when I say there are quite a few working for $10 an hour and all the beer they can drink. There's a reason almost all of them are single and under age 30.

How do I know this? Well, I've been there. I once took a 70 percent salary cut to try my hand at being a brewpub brewer. There are those who would say it wasn't the wisest decision I ever made, but I am either proud, stubborn or foolish enough to say I'd do it again anyway. The point is moot now. At age 63, no one would hire me.
 

Bierview
Advanced Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 922
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 69.125.118.54
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 01:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They would If they knew what we on this board do about you.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12613
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.150.49.181
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 02:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Denny Conn once asked why would anyone want to ruin a perfectly good hobby by doing it for a living.

And brewing is a decidely physical job for most who do it, as much so as construction work, farming, mining or commercial fishing.

(Message edited by BillPierce on February 23, 2011)
 

Nephalist
Intermediate Member
Username: Nephi

Post Number: 458
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 71.135.237.218
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 04:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"However, since I ran out of homebrew early this winter, I found myself spending ungodly money on commercial beer to feed my (and my wife's) Belgian ale habit."

Agreed. Great beer, especially Belgians, can wreck my income. I now buy 30 packs of BMC as
"filler" beer as I can't afford that many micros. I have a friend from Colorado who is becoming a beer snob and spends much on beer. I helped him brew last Sat and he spent almost $60 on ingredients from the LHBS for 5 gal of an IPA. He'll do a little better than sticker price for the IPA we made. It just reminds me why I buy 50lb sacks of grain.

The average income topic leads me to post on world expressions.
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Advanced Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 994
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 173.51.245.89
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 05:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nephalist,

Your mention of drinking BMC as a "filler" beer, reminded me of a thought I had just the other day at a restaurant that had a special going on Bud Light--$2 a pint. I thought that if you wanted to have a good beer out for cheap, you could carry a flask of strong, dark, thick, and hoppy homebrew with you. Add an ounce of two of this to your base Bud Light, and you should have a decent approximation of a pale ale.

Of course it's probably illegal to "doctor" your brew in a restaurant. (If not, it's most certainly against the restaurants rules). I have read of people popping a hop pellet in their BMC to make it more palatable, but this would be taking that idea to another level.

{edited for redundancy}

(Message edited by itsfunbrewingbeer on February 23, 2011)
 

Paul Edwards
Senior Member
Username: Pedwards

Post Number: 2052
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 76.240.193.71
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Years ago, Randy Mosher, under his pseudonym, Dr Bob Technical, made a something called "Beer Repair - the Beer Improver - the Drinker's Friend"

Label says, "Contains everything regular lacks, namely Malt & Hops. Useful for ball games, weddings picnics, festivals and parties thrown by your friends who have no idea what good beer is."

Instructions: "Add a squirt or two to your cheap beer, and enjoy. Later. Rinse. Repeat."

It was tincture of bitter and aromatic hop extracts and crystal and dark malts.

Of course he didn't sell Beer Repair, as it would have been cost prohibitive to get FDA and Health Dept approval. Randy made the stuff up and gave it away to friends.

I still have about 3/4 of a bottle in the beer fridge. It did actually do what it said. I remember driving up to a Cubbies game, and squirting some into my Old Style.

As for taking a dark syrupy HB into a restaurant and doctoring your BMC, you could do that in Indiana. We're allowed under state law to take HB into a licensed premises for personal use, as long as the HB isn't "offered for sale". The law doesn't explicitly say you need permission of the proprietor, but when we do take HB to a brewpub or restaurant, we do get advanced permission, just to not make waves.
 

Josh Vogel
New Member
Username: Loopie_beer

Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2011
Posted From: 65.60.138.116
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, anyone who follows their dream, whether it to be a brewer or a rocket scientist, has much to be proud off. Better than following the masses. My insurance at work is too good for me to try to become a full time brewer...
I agree with Bierview, they should at least hire you as an analyst. From what I read on here you prob know much more than they do!
 

Bierview
Advanced Member
Username: Bierview

Post Number: 931
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 69.125.118.54
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2011 - 11:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here, here....Josh